Thank you that you are a God who gives us your grace so richly and so abundantly, beyond what we could ever ask or imagine, certainly beyond what we would ever deserve. We thank you for Jesus, Jesus, we thank you for living the life that we should have lived and for dying on the cross in our place. In Holy Spirit we thank you for filling us and guiding us as we study your word into all truth and assurance and joy of your salvation. Transform us God into worshipers in Jesus' name. Amen. Okay everybody well we are talking tonight about the sacraments and particularly the sacrament of baptism. So before we begin I need a volunteer, somebody raise their hand, anybody? One volunteer? Okay Pete it's your job when we're done to call all the Baptist churches in town and we're going to reunite because we're going to solve this thing tonight and I'm just going to just spread this all around the city and we'll see neat things happening. No well I'm just kidding but we'll hopefully we'll start to at least begin to understand this a little bit better. Now we're going to start out with some review from last week, little review from last week. Last week we talked about the church and I want to ask you a question if you were here last week, what is the difference between the visible church and the invisible church? JB said you can see one, you can't see the other one. That's a good place to start. I don't believe so. Are there any more handouts? Anybody have an extra or want to share one? Okay well looks like we may need a couple, you want to hand in me if you have an extra one. Great. Great. Okay we have a couple extra here, people that are sharing. Thank you. Boy I was not very optimistic apparently about how many people were showing up to this thing. Okay here we go. Great. Now if you need one, I'm going to put these in the back. If you need a handout, here they are. You can just put them in the back. That's great. Okay. Visible invisible church. What is the difference between those two churches? How do they relate to one another? Good. The invisible church exists within the visible church. Now why might that be in some ways a smaller subset in a local congregation? Why might that be? Because of the weeds and the tears right? Because we remember when John came speaking to the people of God, he said that Jesus is going to come and he's going to bring a winnowing fork and he's going to divide you into the wheat and the tears. Those that are truly part of the invisible church and those that are merely part of the visible church. Now what marks the invisible church? How do you get to be a member of the invisible church? Baptism? That's maybe we're going to talk about that tonight as one of the signs of the being members of the invisible church and invisible church. How do you get to be a member? Right. You get you're born again and we talked about that as the term is regenerated. Remember if you generate something and then you regenerate it, well that's John 3. You must be born again. So that's how you get to be part of the invisible church. Okay good. Now what are the problems with this statement? You imagine your nephew comes home from college, he's got a goatee and some holes in his head that he didn't have before and he says you know I just been thinking about this and I really think that church is just plural for Christian. Instead of getting up early every Sunday morning to go to some building with choirs and sermons and all that man-made stuff, I'm going to go down to have church at Starbucks with two of my good friends. After all, Jesus said for where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them. Yeah you laugh but there are people that do that and if I was cynical I could probably write a book that extrapolated on that view and make a few dollars. What are the problems? And there are several but what are some of the problems with that? That just two or three people together are not a body of believers. Now what do you mean by that? How go further? What are they missing that makes that grouping not a church? Qualified leadership right? Well they do have community, it's two or three guys, sincerity. Well maybe they're really sincere, they really love Jesus and they're bringing their Bibles. Yeah elders and deacons, we talk about that. What else? Sacraments, good. The preaching of the Word. Good. What else? The authoritative preaching of the Word. If you have just kind of two or three guys sitting around, usually it's kind of everybody shares their thoughts and they're sort of observing, but there's no real authority. There's no one who's been ordained by God to preach the Word, called specifically by God and ordained by God that calls not been recognized. There's no authority there. What else is wrong with that statement? Accountability? Well maybe they have each other's email addresses and they have accountability with one another possible. Yeah there's no maybe kind of unifying confession or sort of theological statement but maybe there could be. What if they just wrote one? No preaching? We talked about that. That's good, that's right. Well maybe they brought their Bibles. They got the Word of God. How about, well we mentioned the sacraments. There's no sacraments there. That's the key. You can have accountability but you can't really exercise church discipline. So accountability is good but remember Peter was given as an apostle and the apostles were given the keys to the kingdom. So there was discipline there. Matthew 18 presupposes that people who are not living the way Christians should live are to be accountable to a larger body and brought before the church. Jesus says bring them before the church to talk about this. Okay good. Now you're onto it. That's good. Some good good thoughts. Okay well tonight we're going to look at one of the things that makes a church a church. The administration of the sacraments somebody said this so that's part of what makes a church a church. What is a sacrament? Where do the sacraments come from and why are they so important? Well after we begin to understand that question and sort of answer some of that we're going to move a little bit further and we're going to apply that understanding to the much debated sacrament of baptism. So we're going to say what is a sacrament and then how is baptism fit that criteria and how does that play in the life of the church? Are you ready? Okay let's go. We're going to solve this thing. Let's do it. Now what is a sacrament? A definition. A sacrament is a holy sign and seal of the covenant of grace. Jesus gave us two sacraments. Baptism and the Lord's Supper. You may remember the great commission. Jesus says go there for and all nations make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, son of the Holy Spirit. And at the last supper Jesus said this is this bread this is my body which is given for you. This is the cup of the new covenant. Do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me. Those are the two sacraments that Jesus instituted. Now before we look at what a sign is and what a seal is. If the sacraments are signs and seals of the covenant of grace, what is the covenant of grace? Well the covenant of grace is God's promise to his people. God says essentially I will be your God and you will be my people. Probably the most succinct description of this is from Genesis 177. God is speaking to Abraham and he says I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant to be God to you and to your offspring after you. So this is God's promise. I will be your God and you will be my people. The promise of a personal relationship with God is a covenant of grace because it comes in response to another covenant. That's the covenant of works. In the Garden of Eden Adam's Adam and Eve's original relationship to God was not broken. God created Adam and Eve. He placed them in the garden and he even gave them a divine calling. We sometimes look at this as the creation mandate it's sometimes called Genesis 128 and God blessed Adam and Eve and God said to them be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth. So Adam and Eve have a perfect relationship with God. They have a divine calling but Adam and Eve broke the covenant relationship with God by rebelling against God's authority as their creator and their king. They ate the tree of the knowledge of good and evil hoping that they would no longer live in covenant relationship with God but that instead they would be like God equal with God, knowing good and evil. In their rebellion the Bible says that Adam and Eve became covenant breakers. Hosea 6.7 but like describing the people of Israel he says but like Adam they transgress the covenant there they dealt faithlessly with me. Adam and Eve were covenant breakers made in perfect relationship to God with a task to do they broke relationship with God. How will this relationship be restored? It's restored by God's grace. God promised that in spite of their sin I will be your God and you will be my people. This way back home comes through our mediator Jesus Christ. He is the mediator of a new covenant according to Hebrews 9.15 because he paid for the sins that we had committed under the covenant of works when we became willing participants in Adam's rebellion and sinning against God. Now the sacraments are signs and seals of that covenant of grace. They are the gospel made visible and tangible as one of the means that God uses in applying his grace to his people through the working of the Holy Spirit. Do you get that? Does that make sense? Sacraments are a visible, holy sign and seal of the covenant of grace and that covenant of grace is God's promise that I will be your God you will be my people in spite of your sin. I'm going to bring a mediator to bring you back into perfect relationship with me. Now that developed over time and as it got closer to Jesus they longed to look into these things and then when they saw Jesus old testament figures in the book of Luke, Zechariah and of the prophetus they saw him and they rejoiced and said this is the one that we have been looking for. This is the mediator this is Jesus Christ. So the sacraments are signs and seals of that covenant of grace. Now let's let's look at that a little bit. The sacraments are signs in that they point us to Christ's death and resurrection and the benefits of the gospel. What's a sign do? All on my way home from work I see signs with arrows that say rock city and they kind of they point there right? They're signs, signs point us to something. If you are going to take an exit off the freeway you know which exit to take because there's a sign pointing it pointing us there. Okay. Let's see how this works out. Roman 6 verses 3 and 4. Paul writes do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were there for buried we were buried there for with him by baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we too might walk in newness of life and Luke 1250. Jesus says I have a baptism to be baptized with and how great is my distress until it is accomplished. You see that both Paul and Jesus are saying that baptism is a picture and a sign of Jesus's death and resurrection. They're pointers to what Jesus did for us. We can also see this in Matthew 26, 6 through 28. When Jesus says that the bread and the line of the Lord's supper point us to his body and his blood which were shed for us. Body given for us and his blood shed for us. Now the sacraments are seals so their signs pointing us to Jesus's death and resurrection and the covenant of grace but their seals in that they authenticate the promise of the gospel that there is grace through Jesus's death and resurrection for all who believe. In the ancient world when kings wanted to authenticate something a law for example or a communication they had a signet ring and they would place their seal on that document in order to say this genuinely comes from the king. Only the king has this ring so if you see this seal you know that this law is binding it's valid it has the authority of the king. The sacraments are seals in that they authenticate the promise of the gospel that it comes from the king himself. The sacraments seal the promise that our Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again because the king has made this promise. We will assuredly inherit the blessings of the covenant of grace through faith. We can count on them. These promises are true and we can trust them because we are given the seal of those promise in the sacraments. Let's see how this is talked about in scripture Romans 4 verse 11 the first part. Abraham received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The Old Testament sacrament of circumcision was a seal because in it God was showing Abraham because of my grace you truly have the righteousness of God a righteousness that Abraham received through faith. Sacraments also mark us out as part of the visible people of God the visible church. Just as circumcision and the face of the Old Testament marked a separation between God's people in particular and the rest of the people in general, the rest of the people in the world in general. So also baptism and the Lord's Supper mark us out as people who are a special people or if you're familiar with the King James a peculiar people or if you're just peculiar that's maybe you. A special people belonging to God because of what Jesus has done. The sacraments are like boundary markers. They say you are part of God's visible people and you who are not particulars of the sacrament are not part of God's visible people. Galatians 3, 27 and 28, there's an interesting way that these verses sort of articulate that. Let's look at these. Paul writes in Galatians 3, for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There's neither Jew nor Greek, there's neither slave nor free, there's neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Whereas we tend to be marked out by our race, by our gender, by our economic status these are all things that mark us out and make us different from other people. What Paul is saying as Christians what makes you different is that you've been baptized. You're different from the world. All of these other things that we formally were so concerned about and that separated us they go away because we are one in baptism. The sacraments set us apart. We are baptized into Christ Jesus. So the question then is do the sacraments save us? Well, while some believe that the sacraments infuse us with saving grace that's the Roman Catholic view. We talked about that previously and some of them the previous talks. Some believe the sacraments give children, for example, infant faith by which they are then saved if they die in infancy that's the view of the Lutherans. We believe that the sacraments themselves do not and cannot save us. The sacraments do not save us because their purpose is to point us to Jesus and only through Jesus our Savior who saves us by his grace. We're saved by his grace through faith. The sacraments point that point us to Jesus. They are the seal that the promises are true and authentic that they do indeed come from God but they themselves do not save us. Any more than I would drive on my way home from work down broad street toward Tennessee and see a sign that says rock city this way point out pull over pull my kids out of the car and say kids we've arrived rock city look beautiful right no it's the sign a sacrament points us to Jesus but it's not Jesus only Jesus saves us Ephesians 289 John 146 make that abundantly clear Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through the sacraments no through me through the person of Jesus Christ now with that being said the sacraments do not have to save us in order to be a blessing to us Christ instituted baptism in the Lord's Supper in order to give us a picture of the gospel but also to assure us that we have a stake in God's saving work the gospel is for us when the water of baptism touches our heads and when we eat drink the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper we are assured that God has a personal interest in us and our salvation and we have a personal interest in the blessings of the gospel so they're a great encouragement to our faith that we know that the gospel is not only true objectively outside of us which it certainly is but it's true for us and we are part of God's people because of what he has promised to do and what he is accomplished on the cross God uses the sacraments to paint a picture of the gospel and then he gives us the painting so that we can feel the gospel like baptismal water on our heads so that we can see touch and taste of the gospel like the bread and wine that we eat together in the Lord's Supper now how does baptism fit into this definition of a sacrament how is baptism a sign and seal of the covenant of grace how how is baptism a picture of the gospel well it's a picture of Christ's death and resurrection our purification and our initiation into a relationship with God and his people so we're going to we're going to break that down a little bit let's let's look at each of those three things first thing baptism is a picture of Christ's death and resurrection we talked about this this verse already Luke 1250 Jesus says I have a baptism to be baptized with and how great is my distress until it's accomplished baptism is a is synonymous a picture of Christ's death Jesus spoke this way because in the Bible water is frequently a symbol of judgment think about Noah and the flood the waters of judgment washed over the entire world because people had forsaken God and only Noah and his family were saved because they were God's people they were faithful they lived in right covenant relationship with him but the water was a judgment upon the earth similarly when the when the Israelites on the Exodus they crossed over on dry land what happened to the Egyptians well the water of judgment poured over them and crushed them that's frequent imagery in the Bible and on the cross Jesus was baptized in the sense that he suffered the judgment of God interestingly Paul also explained Christ's death and resurrection as a baptism and in the process he linked it to circumcision which he said is says is also a picture of Christ's death and resurrection Paul writes that on the cross Jesus was both circumcised in the sense that Jesus who Paul says is the creator of all things through whom all things exist Jesus the giver of life was cut off but he was not destroyed and he was baptized in the sense that the waters of judgment flowed over him you could imagine the Egyptians walking through the the red sea and the waters of judgment clapping on them and destroying them killing them but Jesus the giver of life was not destroyed by his baptism instead he rose up from his baptism into newness of life thereby conquering death and assuring the conquering of death for all of us who are baptized into him let's look at this passage great passage Colossians 2 11 through 12 in Jesus also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands by putting off the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ now that that phrase right there is often translated the NIV if you're familiar with the NIV will translate that phrase the circumcision done by Christ or performed by Christ what they're doing there in that translation is they are not translating that phrase they're explaining it the actual phrase there is the circumcision of Christ that's what we call a subjective genitive it's saying that Christ was the subject of circumcision on the cross on the cross we it's it's not as if Jesus comes to us and gives us a you know some sort of magical spiritual circumcision it's saying that Jesus was circumcised on the cross the putting off of the flesh putting off the body of the flesh is what happened to Jesus his body was torn by by whips his side was pierced by spear his hands were pierced by nails and his feet pierced by nails by the circumcision of Christ having been buried with him in baptism in which you also were raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God raised him from the dead you see what Paul's doing he's saying that on the cross Jesus was in a sense circumcised and he was also baptized these things are pictures of Jesus' death and resurrection he is the substance that the sacraments point to when the sacraments are signs and seals they're pointing to something and they're pointing to the reality that Jesus Christ the giver of life was cut off he was judged for us on the cross Peter makes a similar argument noting that baptism corresponds to the fact that Christ also suffered once for sins the righteous for the unrighteous that he might bring us to God that's first Peter three baptism is also a picture of purification the water of baptism symbolizes the cleansing power of Christ's blood given to us through the Holy Spirit we see this really clearly Acts 22 16 and this is in this context that we read and now why do you wait rise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on his name you see that that purification aspect of baptism these are a couple of really great passages that go in parallel with one another Ezekiel prophesying in the Old Testament writes this he's talking about baptism listen to this God says I will gather you from all the countries I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you I'll remove the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh and I will put my spirit in you that is Acts chapter 2 my friends it's it's like a narration of Acts chapter 2 remarkable and move you to follow my decrees what does Jesus say in the great commission make disciples of all nation that nations baptizing them in the name of the Father son in the Holy Spirit teaching them to obey all that I have commanded remarkable now listen to this parallel in Titus 3 5 and 6 God saved us not because of works done by us in righteousness but according to his own mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit only poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior now just a note here because purification is connected to both sprinkling and pouring frequently in the Bible not just in these passages but others we view those as valid modes of baptism there are those who would say that one must be totally immersed in water and lifted out from water we think that's a valid way to be baptized that's one of the pictures of baptism Christ's death resurrection remember we talked about that that is valid but another picture of baptism is purification and frequently purification was done for example Moses dips his branch in the blood of the lamb and sprinkles it on the people in order to purify them and so since purification is one of the images associated with baptism we believe that those modes where whether they're pouring or sprinkling are valid you could eat any of those three ways sprinkling pouring or immersion is all their valid ways that one may be baptized baptism is also a picture of initiation into a relationship with God and his people we talked about this a little bit more but let's let's see how that applies directly to baptism when Jesus commands us to make disciples of all nations baptizing them in or into the name of the father son and the holy spirit he's not only saying that we baptize by the authority of the trading God but that we baptize someone into a relationship with the trying God having been baptized into a relationship with God the person baptized is now identified as part of God's visible people we see this in Acts 8 with Philip in the Ethiopian Unic then Philip opened his mouth in beginning with the scripture he told him with this scripture he told him the Ethiopian Unic the good news about Jesus and as they were going along the road they came to some water and the Unic said see here's water what prevents me from being baptized so now we come to the big question should infant children of believers be baptized now before we answer this question I think that we need to manage our expectations in searching out the answer to this often when we come to the Bible with a question like this we expect to find a one or two verse answer to our question that clearly and succinctly answers the question no such succinct answer exists when it comes to the question of infant versus believer baptism it's just not there you will not find a proof text for either position the fact that there is so much disagreement lends credence to that effect many good and godly people who I love respect read have fellowship with disagree over this it's not as simple as finding one or two verses that say aha here's the answer we've solved all of our problems what is clear is that is that new believers should be baptized that is the thrust of the great commission and is the regular pattern throughout the book of Acts when the gospel comes to someone for the first time and that person believes he or she first repents and then is baptized both adult Baptists and infant Baptists would agree on this no one disputes this what is not clear is whether children born to Christian parents are to be baptized since the gospels and acts never present present us with a situation like this we cannot find a clear example of Jesus or the apostles saying children of believers should or shouldn't be baptized the closest thing that we have is the household baptisms of Lydia and the Philippian jaylor in Acts 16 but even then while we read that the whole household was baptized the scripture is not plain in telling us whether or not children were part of those household I think that those who would claim that this is a definitive proof for infant baptism or perhaps assuming too much we simply don't know either way
the question then appears to be this I think this is the heart of the question in the New Testament are believers children inside the community of faith or outside the community of faith are believers children inside the community of faith or are they outside the community of faith now given that Acts and the rest of the New Testament never record any statement by Jesus or the apostles that the infants of believers are to be treated differently in the new covenant from the way infants were treated in the old covenant are we justified in excluding new covenant infants from the visible covenant community by refusing to give them the sacrament of initiation into the visible people of God consider this the other this is a quote from Dennis Johnson I'm going to be recommending if you see the recommended reading there he's one of my professors a great godly man's preached at my ordination here he puts it this way I think this is very helpful the other changes that occurred with the coming of Christ are clearly indicated in the New Testament he talks then about the end of animal sacrifice the the fact that we are no longer bound by the dietary laws the fact that the temple has been replaced by living temples people all of those changes are clearly indicated in the New Testament the New Testament never suggests that although before Jesus is coming Israelite children were inside the covenant community and received the covenant sign of circumcision boys that is now since Jesus is coming the children of believers are outside the community and therefore excluded from the covenant sign of baptism let's unpack that a little bit given that both new believers and their eight-day old sons were circumcised as a picture of Christ's death and resurrection and their initiation into the covenant community is it not appropriate given that no biblical teaching that the place of infants within the new covenant community has changed that both new believers and their children should be baptized as a picture of Christ's death and resurrection and their initiation into the covenant community given the fact that we are told we have no explicit command and scripture that that relationship has changed is it appropriate to deny the sacrament of baptism to children rather than a tendency to exclude those who are formerly included in this case infants of God's people the trend of the New Testament is to include people who used to be on the outside do you see that the trend is not toward exclusion but greater inclusion whereas in the Old Testament God welcomed welcomed a handful of Gentiles into the believing community Rahab, Ruth, the Queen of the South other examples in the New Testament Gentiles are welcomed in droved droves including German Norwegians like myself who would have formerly been excluded from the covenant community whereas the sign of the Old Covenant was given only to boys the sign of the new covenant is given to boys and girls men and women so there's greater inclusion not less further indication that children are not considered outsiders further indications that children are not outsiders in the new covenant in Peter's Pentecost sermon in Acts chapter 2 we read that the promise of the gospel is not only for those who stand at the brink of making a decision to repent and believe but for their children Peter's assumption is that as the covenant community expands to include Gentiles it is not at the same time contracting to exclude the children of believers some more indications when Paul addresses children in the church Ephesians chapter 6 and Colossians 3 he writes directly to them children he writes children obey your parents in the Lord he calls those children to obey in the Lord without distinguishing between insiders who've been made a profession of faith and been baptized and outsiders who have yet to make profession of faith and be baptized the passage is remarkable because Paul simply assumes that children as one group are all members of the king's community under the king's authority and are therefore responsible to their king for their response for their response to their their parents children as a group are in the Lord but here's the question and I think this is a this is a real question and a valuable question to ask that I think is often a real stumbling block when it comes to infant baptism why apply the symbol of union with Christ before the reality is there well there are a variety of different different reasons but I think that one of the most beautiful pictures associated with infant baptism is the picture of God's gracious initiative to save helpless sinners when we are baptized as infants a pastor must place his hand upon us we cannot baptize ourselves we must be held we cannot even stand by ourselves when infants are baptized we see a crystal clear picture of the gospel that salvation is less about what we do and more about what God has done for us by dying on the cross by rising again by making us part of the visible and invisible people of God okay some conclusions here and then we'll we'll talk about this answer some questions you may have the sacraments are not tangential to the life of the church they are critical to the life of the church if we do not have sacraments we do not have a church and we are disobeying God Jesus Christ gives us clear instructions to baptize to participate in the Lord's Supper given to us by Christ himself they are visible holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace their pictures of the gospel that proclaim the authenticity of our salvation by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone baptism is a sacrament that shows us not only Christ's death and resurrection but the cleansing power of his sacrifice for us and the ongoing cleansing power of the Holy Spirit baptism also marks us out and initiates us into the visible people of God just as a circumcision was a picture of the gospel applied to both believers and their children so also baptism is a sacrament that is to be applied to believers and their children there's a correlation there and a connection there well I think we've just about got to the end of that we've really hit it at warp speed I think in some places but are there any questions you have related to the sacraments in general baptism in particular yeah Peter um the it's the definition it's a I think it's a it's a washing baptism to wash or to cleanse oh because of the because of the issue of baptism and immersion well I think that one there's nothing in the Greek word baptism that necessitates immersion it could be immersion it could it could not be immersion I think if you really were to get in there and kind of dig around in the examples of baptism I think you'll find that some were by immersion and some perhaps were not but I think again what we're saying is not that immersion is wrong or that you know if you've been immersed in baptism in baptism you you did it wrong and you're not really baptized what we're saying is that um that picture of baptism as an image of Christ's death and resurrection which I think is the key image of baptism in immersion that's one facet of the picture of what baptism is another facet is purification and purification is frequently done in the Old Testament and the New Testament through sprinkling or remember that passage in Ezekiel God says I'm going to sprinkle you and you're going to be clean you're going to have a new heart you're going to obey my commands um or or pouring I will pour my spirit upon you so I think these are all different facets of what baptism images and so all of them are valid and though we know our normal practice is to sprinkle because I think that's perhaps just the it's a valid way to baptize I think it's a and I wouldn't say an easy way but a way that seems to make practical sense it captures that I think that that's why we do it but historically Presbyterians have said you can be baptized in any of those three ways which are traditional immersion pouring or sprinkling yes Hazel the three aspects of how how baptism is a sacrament they are Jesus pictures of Jesus's death and resurrection purification and our initiation into the covenant people God's visible people yes well I think the question is essentially are there kind of parallels for baptism in other religions or other parts of the world I know baptism did exist prior to the becoming of Christ for example John the Baptist and he goes out baptizing people in the wilderness and it was primarily a baptism of repentance it was saying we need we need to repent we need God to cleanse us from our sin again that purification but as an initiation right I don't know event I don't know of any other examples they may there may well be but I'm not familiar with them
the question is if you were baptized as an infant you have a sort of born-again experience you come to faith you actually receive the promises should you be baptized again the answer I would give is that no you shouldn't be baptized again and the reason is because baptism is not not a for infants a sign that they truly do have faith but that they are being initiated into the covenant believing community and we still expect those children to at some point make a profession of faith just as in the old testament in Deuteronomy 5 and 6 there's the giving of the law the 10 commandments and then in chapter 6 the scripture says that the Israelites were to teach these things to their children says speak of them while you're on the road speak of them as you sit down as you walk you know bind them as tablets on your your fingers and tablets by your eyes so it's all these things that that we we teach people and we do expect our children to have that you could maybe call it a born-again experience or that moment when one receives the promises for themselves and truly does have personal faith in Christ but we wouldn't re-baptize them because they have been baptized and and they've already received that that sacrament of initiation now we would expect them and we'll talk about this next week we would expect them to start taking the Lord's Supper they have a new sacrament for them and that they are now partakers of the Lord's Supper and I think Chris is going to talk about that next week so we'll we'll dive into that a little bit I saw a couple other hands over here yes Scott we'll get we'll get you back there well the question is regarded to you how did the how did the early church in the first centuries of Christianity handle this I couldn't cite you any specific writings on it but infant baptism was pretty much the universal practice of the ancient church you know you could always you always say that with a great deal of qualification because there was a lot of outposts of the Christian rule that time and you know they didn't have bloggers back then that you know that said Gregor even I see his baptism is baptizing adults you know that didn't exist back then so it may have happened but by and large the historical practice of the of the ancient church for the first many many centuries Kate you may be able to address this when that when sort of a believer's baptism became more of a popular thing can you give a century or I'm putting it on the spot you may not know I'm not yeah you use use your Google but but I am I'm fairly certain and I'll double check with it just to make sure I'm not telling you the wrong thing I'm fairly certain that was the standard practice was to baptize infants in the first three or four centuries of the church now that that doesn't mean that's right but that's just I think you have to make a biblical case but the historical case maybe is a is a plank in there what's that now yeah if if it was if if that if infant baptism was sort of a later addition or something it is somewhat unclear as to where that later addition would come from it it seems that infant baptism is always connected with an understanding of the covenant and you have to I think you have to understand that the New Testament Christians very much considered themselves part of the covenant people of God you know we we teach our our kids to sing Father Abraham had many sons many sons had Father Abraham I'm one of them in story use let's praise the Lord they really believed that they they were they were excited that was good news when Paul and others came to them and said you are you are children of Abraham by faith that was a big deal to them and and it was a very and so I think that they probably got that practice as sort of an extension of that parallel between circumcision and baptism I think that existed and that explains it I think historically yeah Katie yeah Katie is my traveling church historian awesome thank you they didn't walk into a bar did they the the the Baptist the Presbyterian and the who's the other guy yeah boy you argue about that long enough you might want to and again you know I I don't want to overstate this I am convinced in my own mind from my own study that infant baptism is valid and the preferred way there are wonderful godly men and women who I love writers who I love John Piper Mark Driscoll Mark Deaver you know I can think of many others who I really enjoy who just have a different view on this and and then when they when they address it in their books you'll find a lot of angry scribbles in the margin you know about this but you know I still love them yeah John John MacArthur he's got he's got he's got a rough side doing my things sometimes he's very strong when he's strong but he he doesn't like something to let you old John will let you know but again you know we humbly disagree with one another it's not to say that it's it's not important I don't want us to say it's not important but I probably have said this to y'all before my views that we need to be loving maximists we need to know what we believe and why we believe it but we need to be loving as we hold those views and we need to be humble and patient and realize that our view may change and we may be wrong but we want to be loving maximists don't run away from these issues because you're afraid it simply doesn't accomplish anything and you're gonna you're gonna miss out on the blessings of a deeper understanding of what these sacraments are so hold your view we'll try to love one another and be at peace with one another but sadly because it is a practice issue it does divide churches I mean there there are certain issues like that you're you're either going to ordain women or you're not it's a practice and you have to pick you have to pick a side of the fence you're either gonna baptize infants or you're not and you sort of have to decide I mean I realized there are some well maybe we could but we don't you know we we may do this sometimes or not but I I don't in my own mind I don't I don't think that's the most helpful way forward that's just me yes oh sorry Jason I'm not gonna put you in a headlock until you make up your mind you're not leaving this room boy until you decide it is but don't don't give up searching the scriptures don't don't give up and maybe you don't need to make this your life life work to answer this question but but don't give up studying it and reading the scriptures to find out what what they say we're hitting our time here I know people got to pick up their kids and get going I want to respect that so I'm gonna pray and I'm gonna hang out for a minute shut things down so if you have some questions I didn't get to I'm sorry you could certainly ask and ask them now or email me or something glad to talk to you let's pray Lord Jesus we do thank you for your death and resurrection we do thank you that we have been cleansed of all of our sins and that we are part of your people Lord the blessings you give us are myriad blessings on top of blessings Lord we glorify your name we praise you we pray that we would study these things with humility but with a zeal and a vigor to know you better because we want to be worshipers and we want to be in relationship here are prayer bless us we ask in Jesus name amen