Go ahead and start But before we do are there any special guests that anyone would like to introduce to the class this morning. Yes, Mrs. Hill
Escaping the primary
Well, welcome to Julie especially and anybody else trip
In April well, congratulations and welcome Great All right Well, let's mark are we on you know we are on okay We've been on All right any other visitors Now everybody else is a familiar face all right we we finally arrived at Chapter 20 what you've all been waiting for and those poor folks outside will still have to wait but Let's go ahead and read I'll read the whole chapter no I won't read down to verse 10 Through verse 10 and then we'll pray
Let's hear God's word and I saw an angel coming down from heaven having the key of the abyss At a great chain in his hand and he laid hold of the dragon the serpent of old who is the devil and Satan and bound him for a thousand years and Through him into the abyss and Shut it and sealed it over him so that he should not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years were completed After these things he must be released for a short time and And I saw thrones and they sat upon them and judgment was given to them and I saw the souls of those who had been Beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God and Those who had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand And they came to life and rained with Christ for a thousand years The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed This is the first resurrection Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection Over these the second death has no power But they will be priests of God and of Christ and we'll reign with him for a thousand years And When the thousand years are completed Satan will be released from his prison and Will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth Gog and may gog to gather them together for the war The number of them is like the stand of the seashore and They came up on the broad plane of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city and Fire came down from heaven and devoured them And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone Were the beast and the false prophet are also And they will be tormented day and night Forever and ever that's revelation twenty one through ten for Those who are just joining us and Let's open him prayer Heavenly Father we We realize that we are ourselves in adequate To comprehend The many great things of your word We know that it's only by grace that you have let us thus far and only by grace that we can that we can count on understanding and Putting these things into practice so that They truly affect our lives but Lord you are You are our teacher and it is the same Holy Spirit who inspired these words who is now here among us and Ready to teach us we thank you for The good things that you have revealed to us in your word and we pray that you would grant us continued Deeper understanding of them We thank you for the fellowship that we have with each other and For the way we have been able to learn from each other in this class Please be with us once again for give our sins and
Make our hearts ready to Interact with and receive your truth in Jesus name Amen This is great once again you pray and they come and love it
Okay, we're at chapter 20 of Revelation again. I know this is what many of you have been waiting for and Some of you have stuck with the whole class Law low these many weeks and even months some of you however are our relatively newcomers to the class so we we want to we don't want to jump in too quickly and Assume that everybody is on the same page So we come to this very controversial passage Chapter 20 the millennium chapter as many of you probably know and Many of you have perhaps experienced This debate over this passage has sometimes been a bit rancorous and heated in Christian circles I can remember It's probably 15 years ago by now Seeing Pat Robertson one night on TV and you know, he may have changed his views on this by now. I don't know but He was explaining briefly the the major views of the millennium and he got to the omelennial position and He gave a brief explanation and then said now I have nothing against these people he said but they should be they should be Doctors or or teachers or plumbers are let Christians teach the Bible
omelennials are not Christians I had a couple of good friends In college just after college We were all involved in in a very Intensely dispensational church and They and I actually as well became omel at that time changed our millennial views and These friends of mine were asked if they would leave the church that we were going to Because of their their views on the millennium One of my seminary professors When he was himself in seminary had been Working with a missionary organization his his idea was to go with that missionary or missionary organization after he graduated and Be sent someplace he'd gone through all the interviews and so forth He had a good relationship with with one of the men in charge and at the end of the process He sat down with with his fellow after he had found out more about My my professors theology and he said to him finally he said Bob I will not only not support Your application to be a missionary with us, but I will do all I can to make sure that you are never a missionary anywhere And he was floored. He says well why and he says because you are an omelennelist So there are there and there have been these these heated exchanges over the years with regard to our millennial positions I want to make sure that that doesn't happen in our class
We should all know of course that At least we're talking about the the major millennial positions This is not a matter of our salvation
Irenaeus Of Leone who lived in the second century is one of my Favorite theologians of all time not only is he one of my favorite. He is he is one of my all-time heroes of the Christian faith I just love to read Irenaeus he was such a courageous and and profound thinker But he was pre-millennial Okay, much as I would like to change that fact So that we would agree, but he he was I you know, that's the way it is B.B. Warfield B.B. Warfield another one of the all-time great Christian theologians in my book He was post millennial Okay, I'm neither one of those That's just a reminder to us that over the years down through the centuries Christians have not always agreed on their interpretation of the millennium and Not only Christians, but great leaders great thinkers of the faith have not always agreed so If we if we don't find that we fully agree with each other or if if there are aspects of this passage that we still have questions on When we're done. Well, we're we're not going to lose too much sleep over it, but I do think that that this is a very important passage of Scripture and Maybe won't get to this next week of this week maybe next week, but I do want to talk about I think even some of the implications some of the the so what? From our views on this particular passage the millennium
What I thought we would do to begin with is To refresh our memories for some of us it may be very new for some of us as a very old Refresh our memories on the major positions on the millennium the passage that we just read you remember just as we read through you could easily Divide this passage into three parts. We have the first three verses Which tell us about a great angel coming down from heaven Seizing the dragon now of course we remember who the dragon is from the rest of the book of Revelation This is a figure for Satan or he's even identified as Satan in this passage the great the ancient serpent Right we know this character well Unfortunately from the first chapters of the Bible onward well the devil the dragon is seized And the angel that sees him has a great chain and He takes the devil and he throws him into the abyss the pit the bottomless pit and Locks it over him why so that he may not deceive the nations anymore Until the thousand years are ended then he must be released Then the picture changes and we are John sees thrones and Some are sitting upon those thrones and he sees the souls And only it's the souls who are on the thrones the souls on the thrones the souls of those who will be headed for their testimony to Christ and who had not received the mark of the beast They lived and reigned with Christ for the thousand year period and This is the first resurrection blessed and holy is the one who shares in this resurrection because over them The second death has no power But then after this period of a thousand years in which they are priests and kings with the Lord Jesus then the devil is released from his prison and goes out over the broad earth to Gather together these evil forces which here are called by the curious names Gog and Megah gather them together for battle for the battle Against the camp of the saints in the beloved city. Well Their attack is short lived because fire comes down from heaven and destroys them and They the devil is cast into the lake of fire That's the three basic areas we have the binding the rain and then the release of Satan in his ultimate destruction Now how are how is this passage understood? How's it been understood over the past centuries? I Think what I'll do since I since I did remember today to To bring along these handouts is I'll read from these and then we'll we'll just draw a little pictorial Representation on the board. I hope you can all see the board Larry
Okay, there are there are some left Okay, good. This is on the back side of your first sheet under millennial views On their millennial views millennium the word itself, of course, well if If you don't know what the word millennium means by now of course you've been asleep for the past several years From the Latin mille an anus meaning a thousand years refers to the thousand years spoken of in this passage this period is surely mentioned elsewhere in scripture, but only here as it called the thousand years So the question is What are the other parallel passages in in the Bible that help us to understand this period? Well, let's look at The major historical views just sort of to to remind us throughout the Bible we have a kind of this age and age to come basic scheme, don't we? We we have been living in this age. This is the only age we know, but we've also been told about an age to come and What we're talking about now really is kind of the transition between this age and the age to come the eternal age The new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells as this Peter tells us Let's start then with yeah, I hope we can get all these on the board. This is a Wish it were twisted the other way, but We'll start with the historical pre-molennial view as It says in your in your handout This is the view that says that Jesus Christ will return to earth pre or before the millennium and I know it's pre fixes pre and post What's talking about is the return of Christ? So the return of Christ is pre the millennium or it's post the millennium. Okay? That's that's why the pre fixes are there in this view the millennium will be a glorious and resplendent kingdom of Christ on earth the world will be Christianized Christ will rule with the rod of iron and the earth will freely give forth its bounty a Resurrection of the just occurs at the beginning of the period and That would correspond to the first resurrection mentioned in our passage and Resurrected and non-resurrected believers will coexist in the service of the reigning Christ when 1,000 years have a lapse Satan will be loose from his prison a great battle within Sue and Christ and his people will prevail pre-millennialism is often said to embrace and This is really by its critics Said to embrace a pessimistic view of human history because it teaches that when Christ comes you'll have to judge a rebellious world That is Some people criticize pre millennialism because Christ has to come to read to judge a rebellious world What does that say about how successful the church has been? Well, it would seem to have a sort of pessimistic view of the success of the church. Okay, that's one What we'll see, you know, whether you think that's justified or not and if it's justified whether it makes a difference But that is at least one of the criticisms that particularly from post-millennialist Who have a more optimistic view we'll get to that in a moment Believe it or not a minority of reformed teachers have defended this view. Yes, I know shocking as it may seem In fact, Bud was just telling me not about his own view necessarily But that he was his father was trained at faith seminary Faith seminary was has always been known as a presbyterian seminary Whose faculty was pre millennial? So there there is a segment of Presbyterian reformed thought that has been pre millennial and this sort of historic pre millennial sense. It's a fairly Straight forward reading of Revelation chapter 20 Any questions on that? Oh, we haven't put that chart up yet. How we? Okay, so on the historic pre millennial view. Let's say we have a timeline here the cross is here and We have the church age we have the return of Christ here a millennium thousand years of earthly rule of Christ and then we have the great judgment Jay for judgment and Eternity There now we're in the age to come Okay fairly straightforward church aid is what we're in now When Christ comes back he will Institute a kingdom on earth For a thousand years and then the judgment of resurrection and judgment and Eternity Yes, right is the gospel still going forth for them in the millennium class. Yeah, that's that's a good question In a historic pre millennial sense you'd you'd have to say still yes because although it seems as though Everybody or most everybody Who enters in the millennium into the millennium Is is Christian? There will be non-resurrected people who will continue to populate the earth and there will be the need for the gospel and conversion Okay So there will still be the gospel conversions In fact at the end we'll talk about this later, but the end of the millennium, you know in our passage we have a revolt, don't we? We have a revolt of non-converted people at the end of the millennium So yes, there will be a need for the gospel there even though Christ is ruling with a rod of iron and so there is enforced Righteousness throughout the world, but at some point there will be enough I'm believers to form a rebellion, but
Yes, on this model there would be births and deaths on this period in this period now The deaths you don't hear them talking much about the deaths I think they would they would most most of them would say that longevity will be will be greatly enhanced
Yeah, there's a passage in Isaiah that talks about the child that dies a hundred years old Will that that'll be seen as a great shame if somebody dies as a hundred years old. It's like they're a child still And then taking that literally they would apply that to the millennium And so yes, there would still be still be births still be deaths. Remember there will be resurrected people and non-resurrected people on Earthen Okay Confused enough we're going on Larry. Oh good question. Is there a rapture on this Historic pre-millennial view we'll get to the dispensation of you in a second The rapture on this view Yes, they would have a rapture there. It would be much like the dispensation of you Excuse me except that for them The seven-year tribulation period is not necessarily literal for the historic pre-millennial view
Andy
Right Andy's asking if everyone who has died in Christ will be resurrected for the millennium Evidently yes now there have probably been some been some Variation of that on that over the years the some will say that some will rise later some only the martyrs But generally speaking yes All believers will will be resurrected here except the ones that are converted during this time and they die and they have to be resurrected later Larry Okay
Correct Correct Yes, only they will come down to earth those in heaven will come down to earth and they'll reign with Christ Of course Christ is resurrected is resurrected body They go up in the rapture they come back down for The millennium right Yeah, so you have those who survive the coming of Christ. They're still alive in their earthly bodies and They will go on living and Be getting children and so forth living and dying But you also have the resurrected who come with Christ and reign over the earth with him Okay, I know some for some of you this is unfamiliar some of you this you're probably thinking well Well, yeah, is there any other view? Because this is what you were you were basically taught. Yes
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I this is sort of a theme. I think that's that's coming to the fore maybe It's it's a great question Who is actually going to populate the earth? Not the resurrected at least not in the traditional understanding Jesus said you know they will no longer marry or be given in marriage Presumably that means no more bearing of children For the resurrected, but there are of course At at the time of the coming of Christ There will evidently on this on this model be those who survive who are who are not Change who are changed maybe but not resurrected they're not given their resurrected bodies and They'll continue to multiply on the earth populate the earth so that at the end will have a possibility of a revolt Okay, now if you're seeing that there's something incongruous about this Who am I to this way? That's that's one of the that's one of the recurring, you know questions that that comes up From of you like this how how can there be? Resurrected and non-resurrected on the earth at the same time particularly when The impression you you get from reading first Corinthians is that when Christ comes The dead will be raised and we shall be changed, right? It's even in handles one of handles Ratorios we shall be changed so there's in a in a moment in twinkling of an eye It seems like the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the transformation of those living in Christ will be at the same time so who is left to be To populate the earth We you could say maybe there are some unbelievers, but Our unbelievers gonna survive the the second coming of Christ. Well, okay Anyway, let's just get this in our mind as a basic structure That's that's a historic pre-millennial view and I have to remind us that is Basically iron asses of you Then there is the dispensational pre-mill view This is a version of pre-millennialism which emphasizes the literal method of interpretation Historic pre-mill does as well to an extent, but not necessarily not not to the extent that dispensational pre-millennialism does and which sees the millennium as essentially God's fulfillment of all his promises spiritual material to the Jewish people now this is the The major defining characteristic sets it apart from Historic pre-millennialism and that is that the millennium is seen as a very I won't say Jewish period, but it's it is it is God's fulfillment of all his promises to Israel That have not been fulfilled The capital of the world and the millennium will be Jerusalem where Christ will reign along with David and the resurrected Old Testament saints With Israel as chief among all the nations in this view the church age is a parenthesis in God's program of blessing the world through Israel now that comes from this dispensational idea Same basic scheme as a historic, but this dispensationalism has There's an overarching view of all of history right of that history occurs in Dispensations periods of time in which God is doing something a little bit different with his people so That you have a number of successive periods or dispensations before the millennium. We're in the church age But right before then we were working with the kingdom of David and before that Moses and the law and so forth So most of these previous periods have to do with with Israel God is working in the world through Israel so That makes the church age look at sort of like a parenthesis because Israel Israel Israel church Israel Because the millennium is the time for the fulfillment of the promises to Israel The church age is sort of a parenthesis in God's prophetic program The church age is not predicted in the Old Testament. That's according to classic dispensationalism There are I must add some Some folks around the day who are known as progressive dispensationalists who don't quite fit this standard pattern They're a little bit more like a little bit more like reform people. They see that That the church is the new Israel But this is a sort of classic pattern the church age is a is a parenthesis in God's program It was not foreseen in the Old Testament Rather the Old Testament looks at the coming of Christ and then the earthly reign of Christ a reign of blessing and bounty in this in this idea of course Move that princess back the last seven years of this age are called the Tribulation the great tribulation in inaugurated by a Rapture of the church so this also sort of distinguishes it from historical pre-mill There's the rapture the church is gone From the earth and a terrible period of havoc ensues during this Seven-year tribulation period many Jewish people are converted, but the rest of the world is undergoes terrible Terrible trouble and trial and then Christ comes at the end of that seven-year tribulation period
Most of the book of Revelation in fact concerns that seven-year tribulation period according to this view As many of you know this is the most widely publicized even gelical view today particularly in this country Yes Some stuff you reform people like to look down their noses at this view But it has been observed that Tim Lehigh, Jack and Rexella and many other champions of this view have become household names even in Presbyterian churches. Yes Some of you know who I'm talking about Tim Lehigh's books how many are familiar with them? Okay, you know what I'm talking about. What's that six volume series? He's got now so far Okay, I presume it'll be a seven total And Jack and Rexella always talking about prophecy on on TV John Comer was just mentioning how Lindsay is Is doing the rounds again these days? Well, that's just a show. This is a very popular you Can hardly avoid if you're involved at all in Christian things you read Christian literature you watch any kind of Christian TV listen to Christian radio This is the most prevalent view. That's out there For the question. Yeah, Andy
Why the church ages a parenthesis in this view?
Yeah, that's connected with it. Yes, and some of you may have may have heard This teaching that is it it's often said that If the Jews had had accepted Christ Christ Christ came to offer the Jews their kingdom the kingdom that was promised to them Well, they rejected Christ as their king And therefore those promises that would have come to fruition then were postponed until now Rather than what does Jesus do he turns to the nations just like Paul said he preached to the Jews when they rejected him He turned to the nations and therefore the church ages is an unforeseen time. It's when Old Testament prophets spoke of a time of of blessing For Israel. This is what they spoke of the millennium. They didn't see the church age. It was unforeseen So it has that character and and dispensationalists will even use this language the character of a parenthesis In God's plan with Israel. He's been working with Israel since the time of Abraham and So the church is a parenthesis and then he will restore his his work with Israel and through Israel to the rest of the world Yeah, they would see that as as a Corroboration the church as a as a mystery Colossians well see Ephesians three, I think I think similar language in Colossians But the church as as a mystery the mystery revealed now revealed through the apostles and prophets and They would understand it to be like it was a secret nobody knew about it until I think
Yeah, I was asking how going back even to the promises to Abraham Which said that Abraham would be the father of many nations that God would bless the world through Abraham how can you look at those and Still view the church age as a as a sort of parenthesis unseen. Yeah, unforeseen well Again who am I to offer a Rebuttal to that, but yeah, I think that they would they would tend to see that as a a spiritual sort of almost a byproduct of the the blessings of land and progeny and rulership given to Abraham and and and Israel There would also be spiritual blessings that would accrue to others and That they they would they would find that as having a fulfillment here They will sometimes talk about a spiritual fulfillment of Some of these prophecies in the church age a spiritual fulfillment, but by spiritual they tend to mean they tend to mean well a sort of secondary Unseen byproduct Not as opposed to the reformed what I think is a reformed way of looking at is that is that is the crucial thing That's the key thing the spiritual blessing is is Is the sin a colonone? It's it's what is the essence of those promises and if anything the material aspects are the secondary? That that tend to be fulfilled in a new Exciting way in the New Testament Yes
Yes, yes, another brilliant point from the front row This is often said to be this is often connected with a notion that
Today the United States or any nation must treat the nation of Israel tenderly with kig gloves Must favor Israel Because why well if they don't what's going to happen when Christ returns? Part of the judgment is going to be based on how a nation treats Israel and Israel is the get the apple of God's eye Excuse me even now, so this is why dispensation less In general, we'll have a very favorable view of Israel and the state of Israel the nation of Israel must be protected Because they are gods chosen people still and he will resume his program with Israel when he comes back Christians must have a pro-Israel stance and What was there another part of your your question? Can we support that? Biblically What do you think? I do you want to not sure? Okay, yeah
Well, yeah, it is a valid question because of course because of scripture and because Paul even says The gospel goes to the Jew first and then to the Greek I'd give my my own opinion is that that does not translate into some kind of blanket approval or blanket support of the nation of Israel It's not in at least an omelunnel view. There's nothing at stake in Preserving a nation-state a national identity for Israel. I think it's a good idea I think it's I think it's a fine idea that That Israel that Jewish people should have a state a homeland I think I think you can be supportive of that in a general way no matter what your position on this is But that doesn't translate you know, I think the Germans ought to have a state and the French and the English So it doesn't necessarily mean that that israel is not going to be wrong sometimes and we can't criticize Israel and we can't Negotiate with them just as we would with anyone else that it's it's a it's a different point of view I think on the whole nation of Israel and Remember in dispensational view the the very creation of the modern nation of Israel in 1948 to them is a is an extremely significant point in the fulfillment of God's plan whereas for an omelunnelists Neither here nor there really prophetically. I mean, it's maybe something we can all support for other reasons Let's see Richard Did you want to yeah
Mm-hmm
Yeah, good point Yeah, well, okay, well Richard is saying that he's bringing up the the notion of of covenants Which I haven't really brought up in this connection Maybe sometimes when I say reform theology more specifically should say I should say covenant theology seeing the significance of God's covenants rather than the dispensation which is Well, it's different from how we conceive of a covenant in scripture and and A covenant's tending to look more at the unity stressing the God the unity of God's plan throughout all of history for one thing also he mentions that that We we should Take a good look at the typological character particularly of the kingdom of David and Maybe the whole nation of Israel in the Old Testament particularly the kingdom of David typological what it was you mean by that Well Correct me if I'm not representing your your view Richard, but that Certain things in the Old Testament people place it people or or events have a symbolic typological significance that is they typify the foreshadow Christ himself or his benefits so we often speak of Noah as a type of Because he prefigured in some way what Christ is the savior of the whole world you have to be in Christ as you had to be in the arc of Of Noah or David typifies He's a type of Christ because he was God's king God's chosen anointed king to rule over his people in righteousness and And he just foreshadowed Christ who is the ultimate the true Righteous king to rule over God's people so Richard is saying you have to have a typological view of Of David's kingdom otherwise if you have a very literalistic and materialistic view that the only reason David was there was sort of to To be David instead of to foreshadow Christ the ultimate David's greater son Then you can get into trouble either by insisting that there has to be a literal restitution that In a millennial age or Richard mentioned the word theonomist Which which would Theonomist view would tend to look at all the the laws of the mosaic system and say that they should be enforced today Not just in the future millennium period. They should be enforced today and Richard suggesting that properly Typological understanding of David's kingdom would tend to move us away from that to see that the true ultimate significance Of David's kingdom and the whole nation of Israel was to foreshadow Christ and the church So that and that that's an important aspect of of how we look at all of Old Testament prophecy how we even look at the structure of How God has worked with his people down through the ages Mike Play
Good good question what might ask what role does the reconstruction of the temple play in the dispensational view well Naturally if this is we've been talking about their overall view that the millennium is the time for God to Restore fulfill all his promises to Israel well central in in Those promises Was the promise of a temple where God would dwell with his people so yes Classic dispensationalism lays a heavy stress on the restoration the rebuilding of the temple the temple in Israel on Mount Zion Even to the point where many of them will say yes There will be a restitution of sacrifices Now There there's a point where We're very close to saying okay You can delete be any millennial position you want but that's getting pretty close To something that's very serious, you know treading upon the once and for all finished work of Christ now There are ways to come back from that they will say that those sacrifices are not atoning They're memorial They just remind us of the work of just like the Old Testament sacrifices pointed forward to Christ These will point back to Christ Okay So you can avoid blasphemy that way you can avoid saying that Christ Atoning work was not Full It doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that at all and these people would never say that But it does raise the question, you know why Weren't weren't the animal sacrifices Completely Typological looking forward to Christ so when this when the reality comes Why would the shadows come back again Hebrews uses the terminology of shadows and reality Why would you go back to the shadows? Well that that's a very important point and a sticking point between particularly dispensational The dispensational view and most of the others Uh And in fact you you hear from time to time today about Not only the certain Jewish sects Are wanting to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem But about Christians who are supporting them And I mean I've heard of schemes where you contribute to a certain organization You sort of buy a brick in the new temple You'll have your name on it that sort of thing You pay you as a Christian help pay for the construction of the millennial temple So yes The basis for that yeah Dr. Hall is asking The basis for thinking that sacrifices will be reinstituted I believe it's simply the principle that all the Old Testament prophecies have to be fulfilled literally And when God speaks about his temple enduring forever in in Jerusalem and when The sacrificial system is is said to be You know an eternal thing in the Old Testament That's what they're going back to I can't Yeah, particularly verse off the top of my head, but I think it just simply goes back to that that conception That all the Old Testament prophecies have to be fulfilled literally And so there are there are certain ones that talk about making offerings To God Forever yes
That that could well be yes
Mm-hmm
Yeah Yeah, that that's a good example Sheriff's brings up the point that's probably for for a lot of these folks the the The way in which the sacrifices will begin to be reinstituted maybe from unbelieving Jews doing it before Christ comes back in fact The view of the tribulation period the temple is already there. It's built and the antichrist will will set himself up in the temple Try to promote his own worship so sacrifices will be reinstituted during the tribulation period, but then The most critical factor I think for posing views is that this continues in the millennium The sacrificial system at least for at least for classic dispensations and there may be some Who don't hold of that and then sheriff's point I decided a story a personal reflection from someone you know about being over in Israel and We're Victory and in one of the skirmishes led to rejoicing and a part of a bunch of Christian pastors who he would think would Have been saddened by the deaths instead, but this support for Israel no matter what sometimes Goes to extremes and in Christian thinking Was there anybody else who yeah
Um, one is I think to By the idea that the church ages of parentheses to some degree you have to say Christ didn't accomplish What he came to do and you had that you know he makes it clear and for example 17 that he finished the work that father sent him to do. Yeah, good point This tends to undermine the work of the cross Um, I mean, yeah, maybe a little harsh Well Yeah, John's bring up a point that With this View of the church as a as a as a parenthesis an unplanned or unforeseen event now They wouldn't say on plan because they would say that this was planned in gods planned plan from a bold Uh, but it was unforeseen in prophecy But even the way this is elaborated like this as a parenthesis Uh, really causing the question the The work of Christ his first coming Was he successful or not? Did he intend to do what he did? Was it successful and is is this like a plan b It turns out looking much like a plan b that he went to on the contingency of his people not believing in him And that too starts to get us very close to questioning the work of Christ And I think even going along with that a lot of people have said well
Not only that, but it it means this view means that essentially the Jews Well, why didn't they why did they reject Christ They rejected him as as their king and his righteousness and his person uh According to dispensationism he was offering them the kingdom that they wanted In other words They were right Essentially and how they interpreted the Old Testament promises They were right about those they had a material we would say materialistic more materialistic view And because of that because Jesus didn't fulfill that they crucified him So it begins to sound as though That interpretation of Old Testament prophecy in a way contributed to the crucifixion Because that's how that's how a lot of non-dispensationalists have seen it That it's that approach to prophecy that the Jews had and you're saying they were right Come on So it was something else you want to say John
We don't you know, we're as I understand the New Testament we are the people of God We are the fulfillment We are the true Israel we are true Jews And if you if you fall into the camp of this view, I don't think you you in a sense think we're kind of you know And just a plan B or a parenthesis As a as a focus of God's plan and God's purpose is in the temperate history in other words before right uh rather than Yeah, yeah good good point and John's taking us back again to the idea of uh Well closely related to the typology we're talking about but the church as the new Israel And that that that really is the emphasis of the New Testament. It's not just a side point. It's not like uh Oh a consolation prize This this is the whole intent and purpose Of the figures and the types and the experiences that Israel had in the Old Testament was to lead to the very fulfillment in the church Uh, and that that is that is the New Testament picture of things And there was this thing of reading the New Testament saying okay, it says Israel okay That means that country over you know across the Odin and that's where this Yeah, the real thing Yeah, really gets the letting the Bible to find its own Yeah, we read Israel in the New Testament. Does that mean okay that country that's established in that people? Yeah, yeah, good point. Yeah
Yeah, well it was an issue but it was it was different because then they they had to look forward to they had to make up a less believable postulation That Israel would be reinstituted as a nation because they had to be there in the land for antichrist to come and so forth but that's why in 1948 is so huge in that system and uh You know people I've talked to who actually lived through that period, you know would testify to that how in in Christian circles how big of a thing that that was It was seen as point now things are really starting. This is this is the end beginning of the end Well, that's good. I'd like to get At least this introduction to these views Before we go let's go to the next which is post millennialism This view is one that says that Jesus Christ will return to To earth after the millennium in this view the millennium is a time and history during which the world will be Successfully evangelized all nations as a whole will be christianized Though christ is not personally present christ returns at the end of a not necessarily literal thousand years To an earth which is waiting to honor him as it's king If the world has been christianized It was the success of the gospel research that christ returns to a world that is waiting to honor him Thus post millennialism is said by its proponents to be a very optimistic view of the christian mission Of course we when criticism What they have of the pre millennial view is its pessimistic christ will have come to a rebellious world Well, here he comes to a world that's by and large waiting to welcome him So it's very optimistic view of the gospel the gospel will be successful Though one would like to sweep this fact into the rug it must be can see that the post millennialism enjoys the sport of Number of reform pastors and teachers
All kidding aside this there are there are a lot of post millennialists I don't know how to how to gauge the numbers here, but in our in our circles Let's say in the in the pca How would we how would we chart that well
The second coming now here's the cross And in a way you see the growth of the gospel Throughout this age and either the whole period or some will speak of just the last part of it as being the millennium Some will say well, we haven't quite hit the millennium yet others will say no the whole period From the first second coming is the millennium and it's a time of the growth the growth of the gospel and the success of the gospel and Christ will come to an earth that is waiting to receive him and honor him Because the gates of hell will not prevail against the church Okay, I just want to finish introducing and then we'll we'll have to have more discussion next time But how would you look at the all millennial view The view that the millennium is essentially the same as the church age Like almost like we're talking about there with the post millennial view In this view a thousand years are obviously not literal But symbolic the reign of Christ is conducted from heaven Where Christ now sits and thrown at the right hand of God reigning until all his enemies I made a footstool for his feet
So here's our timeline and the cross of Christ and the second coming and the judgment are at the same time And this whole period Is the millennium how simple how elegant How beautiful And how biblical right
The distinction here with your chart oh on the chart They do look similar on the chart here
Post millennialism it's more in the nature of the understanding of the millennium Where where they differ For the post millennialist the success of the gospel is such that The world will eventually become Christianized that may not mean that every individual soul is a believer but That the world and its systems even will conform to the Christian view That's that's why we have a ramp here and things are getting better and better Up and down but in the millennium they will they will be a consistent high state Whereas in the in the omelennial view there's more of a give and take there will be periods of Christian growth and and decline And at the end it pretty much posits that There will be a crisis there will be a time of persecution at the end And in that sense post millennialists will say well you look a lot like premium because You believe that Christ will have to come and judge a rebellious world that's bent on destroying the church so Over the pessimistic Over the optimistic just right
Christy yeah, there will be probably there will be a period of more intense and a tribulation here but in terms of the great tribulation they more they tend more to see it as talking about the whole age remember what we've The church age That's the church the millennium and the tribulation Right It's it's enough to to blow all your categories out of the water isn't it But it's the sort of thing I think I think that this just fits revelation to a T In my view that you have you have at the same time it is the kingdom of the saints kingdom of Christ and is the tribulation of the saints Now John says in chapter one I John share with you the kingdom and The tribulation and the and the patient endurance So this paradoxical character of the church age as Christ is ruling and we're thus ruling but it's also a time in which We're harassed and beaten down sometimes yes
You doing that that full church age is the church was very fitting given the setting that John was writing and Yeah, it is that's that's right true points out the early church in which John himself was writing that situation was a time of persecution and that character pertains to the whole age So it's it's it's fitting at least I would contend that it is And we're out of time. So I think posing views. Sorry. You'll have to wait. Oh, Ed Do you want to say one last thing? Yeah, no second time we'll get to that next week. We'll get to more of the details of the passage today I wanted to get out there the the overall interpretative structures. So next week more of the details of the passage Okay, let's close in prayer We do thank you dear lord for being our god and for you Assuring us of the victory in Christ That there is no power In heaven earth or under the earth That can stand up to the conquering kingdom of Christ We thank you that you have prepared for us and given us a kingdom which cannot be shaken And now we ask you to be pleased with our worship of you this day in Christ's name. Oh man
Yeah
Yeah, yeah Yeah, I'm sorry then let me get that to clearly communicated but yeah