God's Providence

Here we go. No, we're on to still under God's We're under God's Providence. This is the second half of this treatment of God's Providence and My screen in the you know, I always look up here because what's packed there is project on screen behind and that projector is gone this morning for some Wait reason we don't understand so I'm just working off notes and there. I hope they're the same. But anyway, we'll get there Here's the question the question is What about God and evil? Anybody can do the handout now? You're up to me to a lot of handout need one of these handouts. You all have a handout. Okay, it's a little bit different from last week But it's basically the same. Okay Here's the question. How can bad things happen to good people is the best-selling book by this Rabbi Kushner? Is that his name? and Or the question that philosophers say what was Kushner's answer that God isn't powerful enough to stop

Okay, Sandy's there are pockets of the universe that are beyond God's control at the moment That's where chaos reigns and bad things happen doesn't make me very very comfortable actually because I don't know if I'm in one of those pockets And oh, okay, well, that's his idea. Okay, the other question is how can there be evil in the world if there's a good God and God is all powerful How can he allow evil in the world? This is a question that seriously troubles lots and lots of people and it's a question that people wonder Hey, can I believe in God? Because there's evil and suffering in the world and so and so this is a hard question that we come to deal with today and I and I think that the Bible's answer to this is a more satisfying answer and more helpful answer than Rabbi Kushner's answer or People say God isn't powerful enough to stop things or there isn't any God Okay, or he's not all good Yeah, which is really frightening Yeah, I'm gonna say there's no God that's frightening or there's evil in the world that's out of God's control That's really frightening. It's how do you know how much will be how much more will be? Well, I think the Bible has a different view But I have to say when we get into this question of God and evil we're talking about a question that I don't think we can get a final answer to I mean in a way it's like when we talked about the doctrine of the Trinity How can God be one being and three persons and each person whole of the being of God? Ultimately, I don't know I want to affirm that the Bible says God is Father Son and Holy Spirit I want to affirm that the Bible says that God is one and I can try and think about ways to put them together Even though and I want to speak everything the Bible says even though ultimately I may not be able to figure it all out Okay, and I think there's something like that that we're going to have to do here about God sovereign control over the universe And God is a good God and he doesn't do evil, but there is evil that I'm going to say ultimately He uses for his good purposes

Ultimately, okay, ways that we'll see if we can understand so let's go forward with this now This is the definition we started off with this is first not next five minutes. It's going to be review of the previous sessions The definition I gave for God's Providence is that God is continually involved with all created things in a way that he keeps them existing And maintaining the properties with which he created them. So this podium is still stable and firm and hard because God made wood To act this way and preserves wood so it continues to act that way and it's reliable and predictable. I can depend on it that's Preservation and then two cooperates with created things in every action directing their distinctive properties to cause them to act as they do That's the question of how can God work with water to keep it being water clouds to keep them forming raindrops Grass to keep it growing as grass. We talked about all that, but he does And we can fully explain how clouds form water and make rain in a laboratory But the Bible says that God does it so in some sense both are true And then he directs them to fulfill his purposes. That's government and that that's just the last thing and that just come to that at the end today So now there are different viewpoints from the biblical viewpoint The biblical viewpoint is different from deism says God made the world. We doesn't have anything to do anymore You just wound it up and let it go Or pantheism that says God is the universe Doesn't keep God separate from the universe different from that different from chance the things just happened by a lot Something like that they're random and it's different from fatalism What I do doesn't make any difference the Bible isn't teach that The Bible's view is providence as opposed to these things All right Preservation he keeps all creative things existing and maintaining the properties with which he created them He brews one three he upholds the universe by his word of power He upholds everything in him all things hold together. We talked about that last week concurrence He cooperates with created things and directs their properties to cause them to act as they do Ephesians 111 he works all things everything according to the counsel of his will and He makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth He makes the lightning for the rain. He causes the grass to grow in plants He makes his son rise his sins rain on the just in the unjust Here's an active view of God's involvement in causing the events of the physical universe and Snow wind rain clouds grass sun they don't Bible doesn't hesitate to say that God makes all this happen We talked about that last week then seemingly random or chance events the lot or the dice or something like that It's it's it's it's decision is from the Lord and so God works through the distinctive properties of these things Events are fully caused by God and fully caused by the creature as well in some sense and the affairs of nations He makes them great and he destroys them. He rules over the nations And so God rules over those things and then over all aspects of our lives We are to pray to him for our daily bread Philippians 4 got my God will supply every need of yours and your book We're written every one of them the days that were formed for me when as yet there was none of them all our days are Determined they're planned out all the all aspects of our lives planned out and determined by God The Bible is really extensive in how many things it will put under that category So whether it's the inanimate creation or animals or Random or chance events events over the affairs of nations or our lives and so now At this point. I said we have to be careful to guard against Misunderstanding we should not and see people can read this. Oh God is controlling all this and they think What I do doesn't matter That's the mistake to avoid The Bible can you really think of anything in the Bible it would say that? No, it's choose you this day whom you will serve as for me in my house. We will serve the Lord Turn turn why will you perish oh house of Israel? I have no delight in the death of the wicked says the Lord the Spirit in the Bride say come and let him who hears say come the Bible hundreds of times appeals to our decisions our choices our Volition with the understanding that what we choose and what we do makes a difference So we should not deny the reality of our choices and our actions We really do cause events to happen really do have choices and those are real choice bring real results and God holds us Responsible for our choices and those choices have real and eternal results The Bible affirms that many many times you say well, wait a minute. How can you say that God planned everything? How does that all fit together? I don't know I want to affirm what the Bible affirms and teach what the Bible teaches and I can get some Hinted understanding how it fits together, but I don't want to deny these things when we make a mistake But how can the reality of our choices be put together with a strong view of God's Providence which I hold I don't think we can fully resolve this in this life But we should continue to affirm all the scripture teaches and we talked about Shakespeare's play Macbeth who killed King Duncan in the play Macbeth kills King Duncan all right, but At another level Shakespeare wrote the play and and so wait a minute. It's a different way of looking at things. It's an author Planning all but in the play Macbeth kills him. He's responsible, et cetera So now I realize within the play Macbeth killed King Duncan, but at some level William Shakespeare caused Duncan's death and So that was somewhat of an analogy and it made up be perfect But it helps us say there's different level of dealing with things here All right, now here we come to the new material starting right here for today. What about evil? Well in talking about this really Difficult topic that's capable of misunderstanding I think we have to be careful to be faithful to scripture not say more or less than what the Bible says and Avoid misunderstandings and realize that there is mystery here that we cannot understand, but having said that Now we go and look at some passages that have to do with God and evil You have for instance the story of Joseph being sold into slavery in Egypt his brothers throw him into a pit take his coat of many colors They think they're gonna leave him for dead and then they take him out and sell him to these Egyptian traders instead They they send him off into slavery in Egypt That was an evil deed But then Joseph goes to Egypt and he gets promoted to being second in charge of the kingdom and then the Israelites have famine and he they come and Because Joseph has this authority in the kingdom and has got to show him what's going to happen. He's able to work to preserve The people of Israel because he has saved food for them and now he looks back on that and he says to his brothers Don't be distressed or angry with yourselves because you sold me here for God sent me before you to preserve life God sent me Whoa, I thought the evil brothers dragged him off into slavery But he can look back on that kidnapping and selling him into bondage and say God didn't and He says you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good Isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting. I remember one time there was some Conflict with me and someone else who goes back many years now and I called a wise pastor friend in another city I say, you know, I'm really troubled by this. I don't know what to do about this But I'm really feel hurt by this and you know what he said Said, you know, I think this is a Genesis 50-20 situation. I think God means this for good Even though I didn't see right then how good could come out. Look back. Oh, yes. I see a whole bunch of good that came out of it But I didn't know that that ever happened to you where someone has done wrong to you harmed you and it hurt. It was it was really troubling But then you look back after the course of years and you see They've got had a plan in it that you didn't understand whether to strengthen your faith or to move you from a situation to a new situation or bring you to a new level of trust in him or whatever Um, and that takes faith to be able to say that But it isn't it's it's different from Rabbi Kushner saying hey, there's stuff out of God's control. It's just chaos Joseph isn't survival isn't saying that That God had a good plan in it The Lord said to Moses when you go back to Egypt see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles I put in your power, but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go Why because God had a plan to show his power greater than the greatest king on the earth at that time The greatest power in there. He was going to try him for Pharaoh and all his all his soldiers for God's glory And for you know show his people his goodness

Romans 9 the scripture says to Pharaoh for this very purpose I've raised you up that I might show my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all your so he has mercy on whomever he wills and he hardens whomever he wills Oh my goodness It's just there It's just there in scripture Does the Bible also say that Pharaoh hardened his own heart? Yes, it does several times and so you've got The hidden Secret behind the scenes way God planning this would come about and then you have Pharaoh Choosing himself to harden his heart and rebel against God in spite of all the miracles In spite of the fact that he shouldn't have done that so so both things are happening So on 105 25 he turned their hearts to hate his people to deal craftily with his servants Joshua 1120 the Canaanite cities it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts That they should come against Israel and battle in order that they should be devoted through destruction

What do I do about that verse? It's just there in scripture does that make me think God is evil? No, I don't dare ever think that Is there mystery here? Yes There is but but there are verses that talk this way Job 1 Naked came Job he learns about the death of his Wait a minute. How many sons and how many daughters? Seven sons and three daughters or seven daughters

What is it seven sons and three daughters? Okay. See you think you know something Then you stand up in front of all these people of anything. Oh, no. Do I know that for sure or not It's a senior moment. Thank you. That's just what I needed to hear

Okay, but an unbelievable tragedy That Satan is testing Job and he learns about it all his sons and daughters Being being killed By the caldians who came in a raid And Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head And fell round and worshiped didn't shake his fist at God And say God you must be evil to do this He didn't say I don't believe in God anymore He fell on the ground and worshiped Verse 20 Job 120 and then he said Naked I came from my mother's womb and naked shall I return The Lord gave And the Lord has taken away Blessed be the name of the Lord and then the very next sentence says in all this Job did not sin or charged God with wrong I Absolutely remarkable I think it's put here in scripture as a help to us to say Have any of you lost seven sons or three daughters Even with that kind of a trial and losing all your goods and your flocks and everything even if that kind of a trial Is possible not to say God you did wrong That's Job's temptation He's giving you know his even his wife says curse God and die But he won't do it And what a remarkable testimony that he still has faith in God In spite of that Unbelievable tragedy Different from Rabbi Kushner again different from an atheist saying it must not be any God different from saying God isn't good Saying the Lord gave and the Lord has taken away Now I I can't read that verse anymore for the rest of my life without Just remembering our son Alexander and his wife Rachel and just July 9th a year ago when they'd been remuns and she was instilled in an auto accident driving by herself and

And I called John Piper pastor in Minneapolis immediately ask if he'd go to meet Alexander at the Annex to the hospital where they'd taken Rachel's body and John reported to us afterward that Alexander when he went to see his wife's body there in the mortuary quoted this verse and prayed a long prayer of thankfulness To God for Rachel saying the Lord gave And the Lord has taken away Blessed be the name of the Lord. That's really hard But it is better than any other solution Because it is saying that even in the midst of great Argym It's all under the umbrella of God's Providence Is that making sense and that's what gives us comfort and Alexander has said to us in the year in a quarter since then or so your name Said it's a it's a knowledge of God's Providence. It's gotten me through

Went up to Minneapolis St Paul the next day And over the next few days and some several of you in the class were there helping us Coming alongside us. We're so thankful. But Elliot our oldest son and I went to the Polic yard where the car was that Rachel had been riding it Just to get things out of the car and we didn't want Alexander to go and he didn't want to go I got there and and you've got to understand Rachel just she just loved Jesus She's just a deep deep strong Christian And I think that's what Alexander loved most about her was her love for Jesus

And we got there and walked into this police garage where they were still kind of Taking measurements and collecting evidence to reconstruct the accident

And I looked at the car on the driver's side where the pickup Had broadsided her and just completely collapsed side that car

And I'm I'm not sure why but the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that car was Lord you took her Lord you took her Just that she was in heaven. You see nods it's over your past that and I haven't been sad about for a while But I start talking about it again. I feel a sadness Sadness for my son sadness because we miss Rachel

But God had a plan in that that that we Only now in a tiny tiny way understand what we trust it look this doctrine of God's providence is hard But it's good the Lord gave The Lord has taken away Blessed be the name of the Lord Amos 36 does his aster come to a city unless the Lord has done it amazing

I formed light and I create darkness. I make well-being and create calamity. I'm the Lord who does all these things As they have 45 seven The other one was Amos 36 and then limitations 338 is it not from the mouth of the most high that good and bad come Or with unbelievers who are opposing Paul and his and his evangelistic Teaching and keeping people opposing the gospel Second Thessalonians 11 to 12 therefore God sends them a strong delusion So that they may believe what is false in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth and see but here He puts it with their blame. They did not believe the truth, but they had pleasure in unrighteousness These things can be put together Stone of stumbling a rock of offense first Peter 2.8 they stumbled because they disobey the word As they were destined to do there are two observations that I want to make on these verses first Scripture nowhere shows God as directly doing anything evil And so that That's a protection for us to keep us from Thinking something wrong the Bible never shows God is doing anything like the evil But rather and this is my attempt at phrasing this in summary of those verses or Daining that evil deeds come about through the willing actions of moral creatures He ordained that Joseph would be sold into slavery in Egypt Through the willing actions of Joseph's evil brothers who did wrong And ought to be blamed for it He ordained that the Pharaoh would oppress the children of Israel It was their Choice and they are held responsible for it, but God ordained somehow that he would bring it about for his good purpose The Bible never blames God for evil so here's where I want to keep us from mistakes The Bible never says that God does evil ever ever ever he doesn't do evil And it never says that God has to be blamed for evil. That was Job's temptation. Curse God and die Say that God is evil and the Bible never blames God for evil It says God. It's your fault that people did that and never shows God is taking pledge evil and neither should we

I think I think God's heart grieves over the tragedies that happen to Job or that happen to Joseph And there was a sorrow in God's heart yet he knew he had a greater purpose in In scripture never excuses human beings for the wrong that they do and neither should we

Some further analysis of verses relating to God and evil It seems to me then that God uses all things to fulfill his purposes And even uses evil for his glory and for our good and that's the basis behind Romans 828 We know that all things that for those who love God all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose All things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose and that and that's I think I'm sure that's my mother's favorite verse in the whole Bible in all sorts of different circumstances and life She has this confidence that God will work things together for good and I grew up with that from tiny from very young Child it. I grew up knowing that that was her belief and my dad's belief That that that there's this confidence that no matter what happens it works together for good because God is in control You met against me for evil but God met it for good so he uses evil for his glory and for our good It works together for good for those who are called according to his purpose

And even even Proverbs 16 for the Lord has made everything for its purpose even the wicked for the day of trouble Nevertheless God never does evil I'm coming back to this again And he's never to be blamed for evil In scripture God has always removed from actually doing evil and here we get some teachings of Jesus to this regard for instance He says the son of man goes as it has been determined that is he's going to be crucified It's been determined But who gets the blame the evil human beings Who do wrong he goes as it has been determined but woe to that man by whom he has betrayed that's Judas So Judas is held responsible Matthew 187 woe to the world for temptations to sin For it is necessary that temptations come but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes So you get these two things together God has ordained that this would happen But the blame is put on the creatures who willingly choose evil you say wait a minute how can that be fair

And Paul's going to address that in just a minute

Let no one say when he is tempted I'm being tempted by God so we not to blame God God can't be tempted with evil. He himself tempts no one And so God doesn't do evil and he doesn't even tempt people to do evil. He somehow ordains ordains Plans that evil will come about but not through his work through the evil deeds of demons and human beings who choose evil He himself tempts no one each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire So if you're tempted and you give in it's your fault Nox Can't say oh God made me do it God rightfully blames and judges moral creatures for the evil they do and here's where the blame is This is one of many many hundreds of passages These have chosen their own ways and their soul delights in their abominations I will also choose harsh treatment for them I will bring their fears upon because when I called no one answered when I spoke they did not listen But they did what was evil in my eyes and chose that in which I did not delight Evil think about what they're going to do then they do it They choose it and God says I'm holding you responsible for what you choose

God may please ask these seven twenty-nine God made man operate but they have sought out many schemes God made man and woman Adam and Eve good but they had many devices to turn away And so here now people say well God planted how can he hold us responsible and Paul Faces this head on You will say to me then why does he still find fall who can resist his will if God planned

That Pharaoh would oppress the children of Israel and not let them go And keep them in harsh slavery if God planned that Well, then how can he blame Pharaoh and Paul says you will say to me then why does he still find fault for who can resist his will And what does Paul say let me give you a three-hour philosophical lecture Discussing how this can come about Doesn't say that he says Who are you a man to answer back to God? Well, what is molded say to its molder? Why have you made me thus? I think Paul is saying when we start asking that question We've come to the boundary of our understanding And we're not going to get an answer You know, we just have to say it's God's word and he's God And we get out We want to say what the Bible says and believe it and rest in

I want to say this also because and I'm just trying to guard against misunderstandings which come up so easily Evil is real Not an illusion and we should never do evil for it will always harm us and others You see there's a tempted oh God uses evil for good. Well, maybe I'll do some evil and maybe some good will come out Don't ever do that See that's that's that's that's a mistake because that's 100% of the Bible is against that Okay We should never do evil will always harm it weird to pray lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil I think from evil happening to us and from us doing evil my brothers If anyone among you wanders from the truth James five 19 to 20 and someone brings him back Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover Of sin bring back a sin is wandering First Peter 2.11 abstained from the passions of a flesh sinful desires of the flesh which wage war against your soul abstained from don't do don't give into them and Paul apparently has heard that some people are distorting is preaching of the gospel and so in the discussion here in Romans 3 he says oh, what about this and what about this and why not do evil it good may come As some people slanderously charge us with saying their condemnation is just Paul says don't ever say that if you say that You're misrepresenting my gospel. You're slandering the gospel. You're not speaking truthfully about God So How can I say that somehow God ordains that evil will come about for good purpose But we can never do that. I think it's an area where There's some things that God can do that we can't do And I read someone say it's sort of like a wise parent who uses a very sharp knife, but won't let his children touch the knife So God Somehow ordains that he'll bring use evil to bring about his good purposes But he will never let us do it and we're always to be blamed for that so we're never to do evil

And I think this is send him thinking of you and people in counseling when people have suffered great evil We are never to minimize that But to sorrow and grieve with them and to recognize it as evil and call it evil and say that was wrong. That was evil And and yes, I think we can put it in the context of saying Ultimately, let's trust God that he will cause all things to work together for good But but looking at the thing in itself. It's just evil Yeah, it's horrible In spite of the foregoing statements We have to come to the point where we confess that we do not understand how it is that God can somehow ordain That we carry out evil deeds and yet hold on to them and not be blamed himself. That's where I don't understand I don't Okay Well then someone will say are we free? Do we have free will? Scripture nowhere says that we are free in this sense of being outside of God's control And that's what I think people mean by free sometimes and so I'm really careful about that word But we are free in another sense in the greatest sense that any creature of God could be free We make willing choices choices that have real effects

I have choices of what I'm going to do this afternoon or tomorrow morning

And those choices have have consequences in the lives of the people I know my family my students Senator Margaret and so I just think it's very very important day by day moment by moment that I make choices There are following the leading of the Holy Spirit and being obedient to God's word That's really important. I know everyone say it doesn't matter I know that God does use evil for purposes in the world, but I don't want to be the person through whom that evil comes Okay, so I never want to be in that position Then there's a third aspect of Providence. This is kind of PS at the end There's government that God governs all things in order. They may accomplish his purposes So he's established his throne in the heavens some 10319 his kingdom rules overall Daniel 435 he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth None can stay his hand or say to him. What have you done? There's God's bringing about his purposes and his results From him and through him and to him are all things to him be glory forever Amen. So all things ultimately are going to work out for God's glory even including the fact that he sold Joseph into Egypt That he caused or he ordained that Joseph's brothers would sell him into Egypt in his slavery But then he brought his goodness out of that or even that he punished triumphed over him It all works to God's glory in the end He works all things according to the counsel of his will and his purpose is that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven On earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord To the glory of God the Father and again, we know that all things are going to work together for good for those who are called Love God and are called according to his purpose Okay. Yep Okay

Good. Okay. Oh good. Oh good. Okay Okay, whatever it is is being used for good purpose No, Norma thank you Norma is saying

Romans 828 she reads with verse 29 all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose

For those whom he for knew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son And so you're connecting that with God's purpose in making us into the image of his son And that is what he does and it is through hardship sometimes that he brings that about That we are more conformed to Christ's image. Yeah, that's good. Thank you Okay, I'm just about the end and then I want to talk There's something called the decrees of God and that's just a word that is used for the eternal plans of God Before the foundation of the world whereby he determined to bring about everything that happened Including the days that were formed for me when he's yet there were none of them and Now I haven't brought this up yet But this is probably the central example of evil being used for good in the whole Bible and that is the crucifixion of Christ And evil a tremendous evil did because Jesus had done no wrong. He didn't deserve death But Peter speaking on the day of Pentecost can say this Jesus Delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God. So there's God's plan But then what does he say you Is pointing to people you you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men There's the there's God's plan and here's who did wrong and is to be blamed

And here's God's plan to choose us in him before the foundations world in this way rejoice He chose us that we should be holy and blameless before him There are good works that God has prepared beforehand that we should walk in them at the things that he wants us to do and obedience to him Okay, I'm just about at the end The importance of where am I in my outline

Where am I? The importance of our human actions We're still responsive I've talked about that our actions have real results Prayer is one kind of action that has definite results and conclusion we must act Don't be afraid but trust in God be thankful for good things that happen

And there is no such thing as luck or chance I get and so last week I said I sometimes use the word luck but I try to avoid using the word luck honestly Because I think it's misunderstood and I spoke carelessly there Okay, thanks So I tell you what I'm running out of time for you to interact on this So I want to just stop now. We have about 15 minutes left

and See what you want to say And could somebody bring I forgot my bottle of water and my throat solid like somebody get me a glass of Paper cup of water or coffee or something these things Todd. Okay, Todd's on it. Oh, brand new bottle. Thank you

Thank you More free water Mm-hmm Works what you got prepared before okay, so I Okay, look These are hard passages. I am I don't want to minimize this at all. It's sobering

It's in a way it's comforting in a deep level, but it's difficult in another level and I understand that and I I hope I'm representing these passages fairly Okay, and I I didn't get to it and I The point G there is another viewpoint that says there's just evil in the world that God Didn't want didn't plan But it's not the viewpoint that I take so okay, you want to interact on this at all left time here So Phil Yep, here we go. Here's a mic. Oh my pray if I pray specifically for something and It doesn't come about yep Or or better yet if I pray for something specifically The final action that takes place How am I to interpret that my prayer did change or did have results That might have differed or how do I might to conclude that my prayer wasn't Uh, you know answered the way I wanted the answer yeah If if in fact Prayer you know is a specific kind of action that has definite results when it doesn't go my way How do I know that it was God's evidence or or I could have even changed that well God doesn't always say yes So Sometimes we pray and we don't pray we don't ask for the right thing and I you know We can all give lists of prayers. We're glad that didn't get answered

So I don't mean by that to say that it always brings the results that we ask for But I do mean to say that it often does and we'll get into that when I talk about prayer in a couple of weeks So now I've got to think of an example here of praying for something Um Well, okay, it's got the Bible church So we're praying for the right new senior pastor

Okay now up here overseeing all history and and And he looks forward to 2007 and says I'm gonna get

Person a I don't know who it is person a is a senior pastor. No now Back here Phil is praying and Ruth is praying and Wayne is praying and Norma is praying and there are lots of people all praying Now what I think God planned before the foundation of the world is not just Paul on August 3rd 2007 we get a new senior pastor just But I think that God the whole sequence of events Leading up to 25 years of Darryl preaching Giving us sense of what kind of pastor we want. Okay, preaching we want safe selection search committee Search committee sending out all the resumes that God has planned all these things and and feels prayer and roost prayer and Norma's prayer and my prayer God has planned all these things so that these would Be things that God would answer and then give us a new senior pastor So it isn't just the adore he plans the event he plans or ordains the things that he uses to bring about the event too Am I making sense that

So you say well could God have given us a senior pastor without anybody praying He doesn't That's not the way he makes the world work

Was the answer to prayer Not affected by my prayer or would you say it again feel further with the mic? So if and so if we get a new pastor in 2007 and he's gone in 2009 Yeah, and we get a new pastor in 2009 that's marvelous. Yep My prayer to bring us the right pastor in oh seven could have been answered in 2009. Yeah Yeah, because sometimes we get an oh seven right sometimes we get exactly what we ask for and sometimes we get Partial but it's modified in a better way than we know

Okay, good question now. Okay, and we're gonna get back to this in a couple weeks. One impression. We believe in our heart that our prayers gonna be answered

If I'm praying according to the will of God Which is a cordoness scripture, but also I think there's a guidance That God gives us into how we are to pray and I'll just say it real quick about I don't think I can make myself Believe that it's going to be answered. I think that's some art gives me

Okay, I'm gonna come back to that in two weeks Hold on. Okay. Yeah. Okay, John

Yeah, are the ones that talk about God's hardening the Pharaoh's heart. Yeah In the ones you've quoted before and it even go all the way through the revelations there's verses in there that talk about people It's still don't believe and God hardens their heart. Yeah Which means to me he's not gonna give those people a chance because he's harder than the heart already is that It just bothers me, but I also my sense is that He knows everything. He knows what those people are gonna do. Yeah, and it's like pre-judging them Is the only way I can make that fit in my mind What was your thought speaking? I've just go back to what I said that God holds people responsible for their wrong choices They do make willing choices. They think what should I do and they they they choose choose what they will to choose

But ultimately ultimately ultimately the final I think the final reason They they don't choose is ultimately God's plan Both things happen. I think it's ultimately That the final answer for why some people are saved in some aren't Ultimately is God's decision And that means for you or for me That there was nothing in me that merited God choosing me But he just decided to choose me Now in a way John I haven't gotten into this because I've left aside out of this discussion the question of salvation And peace have been lost and it's I put it in the doctrine of salvation This is chapter 16. I put that in chapter 32 on question of election and predestination And that I mean this is hard. That is also hard And I just I gave you in a nutshell. I think ultimately it's all still in God's hands Yet I want to affirm the reality of our choices and what we do matters and what we pray matters And we don't know regarding any individual in the world And what what God's plan is for them And so I had a friend or professor of mine that seminary prayed for his daughter when I was in seminary 35 years ago 30 years 35 years ago She wasn't a Christian. She married a Jewish man Now Edmund Clowney this professor died at age 87 just two years ago And then after he died. You know what I found out from another daughter of his That his 61-year-old daughter after he died came to faith and she's a strong believer now He all those years he'd been praying for her other than praying for he had no idea he went to head on Now I suppose he knows because he's looking on he's happy so we don't know

Uh just a couple of thoughts I have on parrots number one. We don't always know What is best And what we should pray for and and the Holy Spirit will help us in our prayers I agree And so we need to in our petitions we keep that in mind and yeah often I pray for not necessarily a specific outcome. Yeah, but the outcome of what's best. Yeah For his will. Yeah, but I also can say to God Lord this is what seems best to me and this is what I'm asking for Yeah, so okay All right Yeah, look I Stayed here about over here anybody way in the back Diane

Um if evil is a reality I didn't create it Genesis 2 What is it where did it come from? I think ultimately God ordained that it would come about But he didn't do evil Your day that will come about through the willing choice of Satan who was a created being And then other demons who followed him And then Satan tempting Adam and Eve And they're following him they're choosing So I think and and I I don't think that evil came into the world

In spite of that God didn't want it to happen And was trying to resist it, but it was beyond his control See I don't I don't hold that so I think God ord I think before the foundation of the world God knew that Jesus would die for our sins and plan that And that means he planned that there would be sin and that means he ordained that there would be sin in the world For some reason, but that's a mystery This thing of God and evil is that's the mystery But he brings it about through the willing choices of moral creatures demons Angels demons human beings I don't know that I can do any more than that okay families up here

I knew this yeah go ahead put it on the microphone. I knew this question was gonna come up Wayne can you tell me how many points of Calvinism do you adhere to?

How many points of Calvinism do I adhere to before I answer the question I've got to say If I would ask you take out a blank sheet of paper and define Calvinism I would get a hundred different definitions in this class Some people think it means capitalism

And some people think it means our choices don't matter and we don't have any freedom and we don't have any will It's how it just I mean that things all of it boy. So There is a theological tradition stemming from John Calvin's institutes of the Christian religion 1536 And then revised up until 1559 I do adhere to that theological tradition in general I have a different view on baptism than he had I have a different view on government civil government than he had Okay, so but there's a controversy historically in the church and I So I just like I I'm uneasy with labels that put me in a box that that people think of as different from what I'm teaching So I'm trying to go through the verses and teach this okay, but it's still a fair question. So Okay, well now I can say more probably stupid to say more but I will I say I If you if people understand what was taught by John Calvin not distortions and misrepresentations Then I would say I'm a smiling happy evangelistic Calvinist A smiling evangelistic five-point Calvinist But if you put smiling happy evangelistic you you get away from some of the distortions Okay, but you've known me for years

Yeah, no, no, and so they we can get into discussion about that later But that but it has to with a view of God's sovereignty that Helps me deal with difficulties in line and help and gives me peace about the future of our nation Even though I'm praying honestly about it. See The but the Gods in control he'll bring good and he's gonna bring good For his people out of all things that happen. Okay way back here Yeah, and the couple of minutes ago you showed a slide that says we really do cause Events to happen. Yep Page 321 of your systematic theology the most difficult page for me And entire book. Yeah, states it seems better to affirm that God causes all things that happen Yep, and the word cause is bothering me. Yeah, there has to be two different words there No, it's just causing a different sense. It's this Shakespeare and Macbeth deal It's it's causing in the fact of an overall plan that ordains things that will happen versus causing and being the immediate cause of something that happens So it's it's using the word in a different sense and Tom I I mean in a way I'm I guess I wrote that I'm willing to affirm the language But it's I'd rather use this word ordains or plans that it would happen through the willing Choices of individual just in the same way or similar way to clouds and He humidity and atmospheric pressure cause rain to fall, but God causes the rain to fall. See so Okay, different sense. It's hard. And I'm not saying I've got all the answers But but ultimately I guess what I want to leave you with is a trust in God that he is good And that he will do good for his people and on the last day we'll look back and it'll share to us. He will all seem fair At the need at the name of Jesus every need will bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father Every month will we stop no one will say it's unfair is fair is just is good is wise that we can trust him Okay Well, I got a note last time someone saying why am I skipping the hymn all the time So here now let me ask you Next week you've got a choice should I come back to this and talk about it and do some more some more questions or should I go on to the question of miracles So how many stay on Providence another week? How many gone to miracles I guess Providence wins here. What I will do as ordained by God before the foundation of the world For our good and his glory and our joy What I will do is I'll pick up at e Importance and actions ago on the fmg come on in our minion view, which I think I do very responsible I should give representation to this view. There's an alternative and it's kind of the instinctive view that most people have Uh or many people have and then my response to that and say look that's a responsible position to other people hold it And if you want to hold it Then you want to hold it. That's all okay. Let's sing this um Let's sing this um All people all people that on earth do do okay. Let's stand up. Let's start. Okay O Lord our God the great and glorious and mighty and all powerful God we give you thanks We bow before you Lord your thoughts are higher than our thoughts And your ways higher than our ways as the heavens are higher than the earth Lord you've given us some insight into your ways You've told us truth in your word. We bow before it We humble our hearts before you learn They'll give you thanks and Lord we once again recommit our lives into your hands asking that you would do good and lead us in paths of righteousness for your namesake In Jesus name. Amen. See you next week