Romans 9 19 through 29 one of you will say to me see where I am Romans 9 19, then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will one of you will say to me, doesn't this totally undercut human freedom? Understand why is he still blame us? He has mercy on one and he hardens another one then we have nothing to do with it For who resists his will? He's the creator. We're discreeters But who are you, O man to talk back to God? Paul's answer is merely to put a question or the protester in his place Show what is formed say to him who formed it? Why did you make me like this? hardly Have which his form doesn't have much say in the matter Does not the potter Have the right to make out of the same lump of clay Some pottery for noble uses and some for common use So far he has argued without specifically mentioning God in 20 and 21 But in 22 his purpose becomes plain and When he has said show what is formed he means the creature the human creature Say to him who formed it the creator God and when he speaks of the potter and the clay We are the vessels of clay and God is the potter. I'm going to show you the ways that Armenian theologians have dealt with this passage And see if you agree with what they have done 22 says what if God Choosing to show his wrath and make his power known bore with great patience the objects of his wrath prepared for destruction What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy whom he prepared in advance for glory One Armenian objection is these are questions Paul is asking questions. He is it teaching Truth another one is it's hypothetical It's hypothetical it says What if God had that power as the maker of the pottery to do what he wants with it in versus 20 and 21 And likewise 22 says what if and 23 says what if it's hypothetical? It's not saying he actually does that. Oh, yes Hypothetically, he's got the prerogative to do what he wants with his vessels But he has respected the The rights of his highest creature man and given him the freedom of will And based his plans ultimately on what he foresees the creature will do What do I think about these arguments are the questions merely asking information Or are they rhetorical questions? They certainly are rhetorical questions. That is Their questions inform They're not really asking for information. They are a way of teaching I know that from verse 24 and that's the same answer to the hypothetical business The third one one thing is these are questions. They're not really making statements Another one closely akin to it is it's just hypothesis He's not saying God actually does that with his dream and creatures It's just saying what if he'd have the rights to do it if he will to do it but he didn't The third one is through Romans 9 to 11 Is a distinction between Jews and Gentiles and that's what he's talking of here It's a corporate business with the vessels. It is not specific That is always talking about the Jews who have been put out and the Gentiles who are the noble vessels who have now been brought in That's what he's talking about not individual vessels of Salvation being the Jews and individual vessels who are lost being Jews That's not it or as a matter of fact that is it and we know it from verse 24 because Verse 24 plainly takes the matter out of the possible realm of hypothesis into actual fact when it says Whom also he called even us Not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles I'll explain a couple verses in front of this but first of all let me show you That those objections don't really hold water Here's what I mean Paul says He identifies Certain first century human beings As the vessels of mercy understand When he says even us here's how the thought runs What if God did this verse 23 what if he put up with the unbelief In order to make the riches of his glory known to the vessels to the objects of his mercy Who we prepared in advance for glory even us it's not hypothetical It's actual he claims himself to be a vessel of mercy We have a construction here in the Greek that's called a partitive It uses the preposition X this is not special Calvinist grammar. It's a standard Greek grammar When he says not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles a partitive shows a whole out of which the word that follows the egg That that follows the from is the part that is the whole is the Jews of whom the called are apart And the whole is the Gentiles of whom the called are apart a fraction could be a big fraction That's not as neither here nor there, but what I'm saying is Paul identifies First century Jews and Gentiles as not only called Calling is the evidence of the prior election But also chosen The chosen is communicated in the notion of the potter Doing what he wants with his pottery You understand the fact that verse 24 Identifies actual first century human beings as vessels of mercy Indicates this is not a hypothetical statement on Paul's part Indicates he's not talking about the Jews as the best the noble vessels And I mean the Gentiles as a noble vessels and the Jews as rejected ones because look There's two different groups here and each one has a subset Even us are the vessels of mercy whose he says prepared in advance for glory even us Whom God has called he whom God has effectively summoned to himself Not only from the Jews But also from the Gentiles first 24 last teaches that some First century Jews or the vessels of mercy whom God has called to himself And some first century Gentiles are the vessels of mercy whom God has called to himself Thus Paul answers the question has God's word failed With this redemptive history lesson the culmination of which is His word hasn't failed oh Jewish and Gentile believers in Rome God has sovereignly accomplished his will in saving and condemning first century Jews And Gentiles let me work work more carefully now with the verses 22 and 23 What if God Choosing to show his wrath and make his power known he has ordained to do that But he has born with great patience God hasn't ushered in the end of the world and the resultant great judgment yet and listen by his Waiting by his not bringing the end he has shown great patience Because he has born he has put up with great patience Did you ever endure with unsaid people perhaps in a job? I know some of you have It's a terrible thing Can you imagine the holy God who's infinitely holy putting up with his creatures who he's gone against him every day of their lives Even God's people even we are our cause of embarrassment to the Lord let alone the wicked What if God choosing to make show his wrath and make his power known bore with great patience The objects of his wrath prepare for destruction. God puts up with the reprobate every day. Why What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known To the objects of his mercy whom he prepared in advance for glory in other words If God had said enough is enough the measure of sin has reached has overflowing the cup Here comes judgment boom If he had done that 25 years ago some of us would be lost in this room Because we came in the Lord in between that time you with me or whatever time frame you want to put up You want to put on it in other words God's postponing the final judgment and enduring the wicked Has given more and more time for him to bring his people to himself notice the imagery God is the potter There are two types of vessels I don't quite understand why the NIV renders objects in 22 and 23 is it plain to you that these are objects of pottery That's what they are Objects there is the same word translated pottery in verse 21. We're talking about The vessels that come off of the potter's wheel He has objects or vessels of wrath in verse 22 He has objects or vessels or pottery of mercy in verse 23 furthermore The objects of wrath are said to be prepared for destruction friends That is refurbation. It is not the only thing the Bible says about the wicked It is not the major thing the Bible says about the wicked Primary thing God says about the wicked is the soul that sins it shall die And people get what they deserve for their sins But in at least a few places it says God stands behind the fate of every human being Those who know him in fact only know him because of the sovereign grace and those who don't know him Although they get what is coming to them for their sins still they have not escaped from the sovereignty of God And they could be called vessels of God's wrath prepared for destruction It is not the whole picture, but it's one part of it Likewise in verse 23 other human beings as a matter of fact in this case first century human beings included verse 24 Are vessels of God's mercy whom he Prepared in advance for glory merely theory oh no including even us oh merely the group deal of Gentile and Jew oh no A subset of each of those bigger spheres Even us whom he also called not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles I am compelled by these verses to teach a doctrine of double predestination by now you know I do it carefully Does not nullify evangelism for me if it's not cancel out human responsibility With the Bible teaches God stands behind the fate of every human being I believe it on the basis of I had nothing else but Romans 9 6 through 24 I would teach exactly as I have have a little more qualification my understanding of 22 and 24 Through 24 of Romans 9 the context of the whole Bible is as I said earlier God kind of plates of human race as sinners This is before the creation But he has decreed he has planned to permit the fall he contemplates the human race as sinners And out of what the gustan call that damned mess that is That same lump of clay. We're all lost in a sight We all deserve to perish But the potter for reasons known to himself out of that same lump of clay makes a multitude of vessels of mercy and he prepared them in advance for glory Praise be his name Praise be to the glory of his grace his sovereign grace on the other hand contemplating the human race as sinners He also planned to pass by others and to allow them to receive the just recompense for their sins That is my understanding of his having vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. So God stands behind both the elect and the reprobate both saved and lost He stands behind both. I can't say his sovereignty extends only to the one sphere and not to the other And these people are out from under God's control and they're captain of their own states or something. No God stands behind both, but as I said before he stands behind both in different ways a Symetically, he's the cause of the grace that saves these people. He is proactive He is not the cause of the sin that dams these people because he has viewed the whole mass elect and reprobate alike as lost in his sight and all he has to do to condemn these people is to choose To allow them to pay the penalty for their sins. I submit to you he could have contemplating the fall as something that was going to happen He could have justly condemned the whole human race to hell And nobody would have had any people protest before him understand But rather than doing that and in fact he has done that for many But for multitudes He has to create another fate He the potter has fashioned them as vessels of mercy Who he has destined for glory questions or comments. I know it's a hard teaching. Yes, sir It is double the question is since only one of the two is proactive. Is this really double predestination? Yes, it is double in that God is sovereign behind those fates But not in the same way He's not the cause of the evil as he is the cause of the good and now you know what burkoff was getting at He's not the cause of sin He did not choose for people to sin We plan to permit the fall. I know that's awkward. You do it a better way Are you going to say he caused the fall and they came credible chargeable with sin? I can't do that. Are you going to then cut the fall totally loose from God's control God relinquishes control completely and his creatures ran him up No, I can't say it. So he had to plan to allow the fall I don't love that expression, but it's the best I can do. Yes, sir That's a good question. I don't understand the Armenians viewpoint. It was said that they believe God is not in control No, they do believe God is in control Concerning if you ask me the majority Way that Armenians say pastors handle this matter the majority way is by avoidance of it I'm not being nasty I'll be fair Calvinist avoid the apostasy passages. I don't mean I'm not trying to be unkind I know that because in that book grace unlimited I commended to you the best Armenian book When I Howard Marshall a fine scholar writes that essay on predestination in the New Testament And he makes some good points from the Armenian side by the way Appealing to mystery and so forth when he writes that essay the first thing he says is I believe in predestination Why is it to say that? Because in his tradition some have said they don't even believe in it or They haven't been that you know blunt, but they've just kind of passed over it pardon the pun They've neglected it passed over nasty nasty trest. They've just neglected it and haven't dealt with it But in this passage, what have our many an exegites done? Those three things They've said we do have a Jewish and Gentile motif running through Romans 9 to 11 and they're right And therefore the two types of vessels are to be understood as Gentiles the noble vessels and Jews vessels of destruction respectively does it wash it does not because of verse 24 Which assigns vessels of mercy from both groups another way is to say It's merely merely questions They're not teaching devices I can show you chapter after chapter of Romans where Paul uses questions To teach oh Romans 8 When he says first 31 what then shall we say in response to this? And if he said when he says is if God is for us who can be against us It's not asking for an answer. It's saying God is for us No one can successfully oppose us And when he says Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen it is God who justifies He's not asking for answers he emphases emphasizing the fact that God is the supreme moral being of the universe He has declared us righteous and no one will condemn us when he says who shall separate us from the love of Christ in verse 35 He's not asking for questions He is exploring possibilities and in fact showing that No one will separate us or no thing will separate us from the love of God in Christ likewise in Romans 9 22 And 23 the questions are indeed in and rocket the form But they're rhetorical questions the form is merely interrogative. They're not asking for answers instead They're an emphatic way of teaching That the potter image from the preceding couple of verses is now expanded specifically to talk about the fates of first century human beings. Yes It's a very good question and let me read Stayed it for the benefit of those taking the course by extension In verse 18 it says God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardens whom he wants to harden That seems that both of these are active and yet down in 20 2 through 24 I'm making I'm putting God behind the fates of the two respective groups asymmetrically. Okay, it's a very good comment 18 is not talking about election He's talking about the manifestation of God's plans decrees in history with his Having mercy on the Israelites in Egypt and with his hardening pharaohs heart in Egypt Yes, God actively works out his plans in history But I'm talking about the work of the potter before history before the creation of the world. Yes Okay, uh, I would say this some have taken these as not only God standing behind both But God standing behind both in a stronger and proactive sense on both sides than I have Okay, traditionally Supra lap serian Calvinists have done that I respect them As a matter of fact the best book I know of on Romans 9 I should have mentioned this before is John Piper's book the justification of God he argues that way from this passage. I will give you this If we only had this passage it looks that way So I am not saying that my reading of Romans 9 Thank you for your question because it helps me qualify I'm not saying my reading of Romans 9 20 23 is the only reading I am fitting it with a bigger picture of scripture Although having said that the prepared for destruction is slightly different Then the he prepared in advance for glory in 23 that is the first is The first is passive Objects of his wrath which were prepared Now it means what prepared by God. I don't deny that doesn't mean we're prepared by themselves There's nothing or by the devil But it says which were prepared the next one 23 says which he God has prepared beforehand for glory It's a possible distinction between a passive form I'm suggesting it fits with passing over and an active form he prepared in advance for glory But could you get Supra lap serian Calvinism out of this could you get the distinction of human beings in the mind and The plan of God before he contemplates them as sinners Yes, you could if you only had Romans 9 on the basis of the full witness of scripture I would follow Louis Berkhoff the be Warfield and others Anthony hookama and I would see this as speaking of Infront lap serianism that is I understand the Lump of clay in verse 21 to be Augustine's Augustine's damned nests He contemplates the human race as already sinful and then from that he chooses many for for salvation And he just has to pass over the others is if the only interpretation possible no I do think on All things considered it's the best one and there's maybe a hint this way with the passive Which were prepared in advance. I'm sorry which were prepared for destruction in 22 Confessor with the more active whom he God prepared in advance for glory But I do admit the Calvinists disagree over those two possibilities Lots of hands. Yes shoe one question Is it possible for somebody who is elect never to hear the gospel? Oh, I don't know if this is a hypothetical question or what I would say I think there's a category here of say infants who die And maybe retarded persons But I'm not trying to cop out are you saying what about elect persons Ha, I don't have a good answer on this one because I'm afraid to say one thing Because then I could see people saying well and bring the missionaries home because the elective been heard anyway And see in terms of human responsibility God has told the church to get the gospel out So I will leave the electing up to him And the dying on the cross and rising from the dead up to the sun And even the actual bringing people to God to the Holy Spirit And I will get on with our job we should get on with our job of proclaiming the gospel to whosoever will But not as if we're saving people As if there's a sovereign father who has chosen his people A sovereign son who has redeemed his people and a sovereign Holy Spirit who's going to draw those people to Christ as offered in the gospel So I'm gonna stay away from any kind of manipulation I don't need to get the music just right and get the people in a certain frame of mind and so forth I don't know if I could be dangerous Because you could bring about false assurance of salvation We've all known people who said oh stop right there. I've already tried Jesus Well, I don't think they really believed in the Lord Jesus Christ the Lord of glory and known his forgiveness of sins But somebody made the gospel so palatable to them That they didn't understand the true gospel and the message of God's wrath and how Jesus is a savior of sinners From hell I don't have the answer to every question. That is a hard one indeed. This is so one-sided Let me keep going a little bit and then keep answering questions. I'm happy to do it Let me just by way of balance say look what happens next as he says in Hosea Paul the apostle to the Gentiles in dealing with this particular problem in the church and room Wisely appeals to the Old Testament to prove what he says In verses 25 and 26 He appeals to the Old Testament to show That God has called verse 24 even us whom he also called From the Gentiles As he says in Hosea I will call them my people who are not my people And I will call her my loved one who is not my loved one Paul says listen This too is contained in the Old Testament scripture. God has predicted He's going to bring the unclean dogs of the Gentiles to himself as part of his people Accepted Jewish Christians in Rome. It's part of God's will first 26 and it will happen that in that that very place Where it was said to them you are not my people They will be called sons of the living God the sons of the devil have become the sons of the living God By virtue of the grace of God as proof of the fact that 25 and 26 speak of the Gentiles look at 27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel So 25 and 26 are Old Testament appeals that Paul uses to show even the Gentiles would be brought in in other words 25 through 29 are verifying what he has just said in 22 to 24 especially 24 Even us are included even we are included In those vessels of mercy predestined for glory Because he also called us and that's how we know we're chosen God summoned us to his son And we are from Jews and Gentiles concerning Gentiles being included in the true people of God That's what Hosea says in two different places 25 and 26 concerning Israel Isaiah cries out concerning Israel though the number of the Israelites Be like the Saiyan by the sea That is the big circle here friends only a remnant will be saved Listen first entry Christians Jewish Christians in real Don't be surprised that God has saved a remnant of Israel as well God has always done there is ethnic Israel Israel of the flesh and then their spiritual Israel Israel of the Holy Spirit a subset of the bigger group
Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand of the sea verse 27 Only the remnant will be saved for the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality It is just as Isaiah said previously verse 29 Unless the Lord Almighty Accent on the sovereignty of God had left us descendants We would have become like Sodom We would have been like Gamora in though the message there is Jewish Christians in Rome the remnant idea in 27 And unless the Lord Almighty left us descendants in 29 The sense is listen Jewish Christians in Rome get on your knees and thank God that any of you are saved It is only because of the sovereign grace of God and the meantime rejoice That God has grafted in wild olive branches into the stock of Israel By the same token he's reminding the Gentiles to be respectful of their Jewish brothers and sisters I know there are more questions this subject always brings lots of questions Yes, sir Okay, it's a good question. How does this vein in which we have been speaking here for about an hour How does it relate to John's teaching that in John's 16 that God gave his son In order that whosoever believes in him might have eternal life John didn't say in order that the elect might have eternal life That verse is an appeal a genuine appeal to human responsibility. I affirm it I affirm it. I affirm it It's not the subject of the course where I would go on and talk about Romans 9 30 through chapter 10 Verse by verse the way we have done chapter 9 up at this point but notice The Apostle Paul Who just has extolled the utter sovereignty of God In hardening some and showing mercy to others, okay He in the next breath blames Jews For not submitting to verse 3 of chapter 10 to God's righteousness He blames them for having a zeal for God verse 2 that is not based on knowledge He blames them verse 32 of chapter 9 For not pursuing righteousness by faith But for trying to get saved by works Again and again. He says it. I don't need to go to John 3 16 I have we need to go to John out Romans 10 9 if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in him in your heart that God raised him from the dead You will be saved For it is with your heart. You will you believe and are justified And is with your mouth that you confess and are saved as the scripture says any one It's an appeal. It's an open-ended appeal Anyone who trust in him will never be put to shame for there's no difference Between Jew and Gentile the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved the apostle Paul put these things right One after another we need to embrace them both God is in control There is genuine human responsibility and concerning the next question that usually comes up well then why preach the gospel First 14 of Romans 10 how then can they call on the one they have not believed in And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard And how can they hear without someone preaching to them and how can they preach unless they are sent And again he returns to blaming them
Verse 19 I will make you envious By those who are not a nation that's the Gentiles I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding Verse 20 and again Isaiah boldly says I was found by those who did not seek me I revealed myself to those who did not ask that's the Gentiles I know because verse 21 starts like this and concerning Israel he says All day long I have held out my hands To a disobedient and obstinate people you tell me how in one chapter he could say who are you old man to talk back to God And in the next chapter he could say all day long I've held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people My only answer is that the Bible teaches compatibleism Absolute divine sovereignty and genuine human responsibility they're both taught are they both ultimate Of course they are not both ultimate God is God God is ultimate and the ultimate answer as to why people are saved or lost is given in chapter 9 Because of God's work as the potter In choosing some and passing by others. I don't say it because I made it up. I could be wrong But I really think it's what the Bible teaches On the other hand you say well then if that's the case then God doesn't blame us for our sins Justly well you better read Romans then again because he does I can't fit it together perfectly Need to deny but I believe it because it's what God says his sovereignty doesn't nullify His condemnation of Israel for its unbelief It does not nullify the necessity of getting the gospel out Is there more a more urgent appeal for the gospel getting out and for missions? Then we find in Romans 10 14 and following it is incredible Neither does that genuine affirmation of human Responsibility and even guilt and culpability Neither does that cause the apostle in chapter 9 To blunt his sovereignty saying And to turn it around so God is the ratifier of our choices I cannot read it that way But I can understand if you wrestle with these things. I hope you will Just wrestle in the word of God and I will be happy camper remember our ultimate fellowship doesn't depend upon How much you agree with me or vice versa? It agrees on our being partners together Of the Lord Jesus Christ Thank you for your good attention and work Made a Lord bless you as you work with scrolls book feel free to battle with it to wrestle with rc And to come the class prepared to glory your quiz our quizzes And to learn from that process as well. Thank you very much and good night