our Heavenly Father, we thank you once again for this bright and beautiful Lord's Day morning. We thank you that you call together your saints to come and worship you, to pay their homage and to give praise for what you've done for us. We thank you now that we can have this time of study and reflection and discussion about your word. We thank you that you have inspired the Apostle John to preserve for us these words of spirit and of life that you gave while here on earth. Lord, we thank you that you are the light of the world, that we might not have to walk in darkness. We thank you that you purge our sins and that you give us a mission in this life. We ask that we might glorify you this morning with our thoughts, with our discussion, with all we do and may our praises and our worship be pleasing in your sight. We ask it in your name. Amen. Welcome all late comers. Please come on in and take a seat. Don't be embarrassed. We're just one happy family here. Last week we were in the middle of the chapter seven, John chapter seven, which is this account you recall of Jesus at the feast of tabernacles. And we only got part way through. Really, I wanted to emphasize one aspect today. I want to emphasize another aspect of that time. Last time we talked about this rather curious phenomenon. We see over and over in John, we saw a couple of times in chapter seven, where there is a part of the controversy about Jesus, part of the reason why people are stirred up about him, don't know quite what to think, is that there is this mystery about anybody remember? Where he came from. Where he came from. You remember there were these two theories, two feces that we ran across in chapter seven, just briefly just reviewing, and some of you I know weren't here last week. There were those who thought when Messiah comes, we won't know where he's from. And we know where this man is from. So he can't be the Messiah. I was in the earlier part of chapter seven. He is up at the feast of tabernacles. And then later in the chapter there's another group that says, well, we know that the Messiah, when he comes, is supposed to be from where? Bethlehem, the city of David. And yet this man as far as they knew, he's from Galilee. And they say, search, you'll find that no prophet has come from Galilee. And we pointed out, well, not only the sort of conceded notion that they thought that if you just know where he's from, you'll know who he is from their earthly way of thinking that was wrong. But ironically, ironically, what they both said, both groups said was true. When the Messiah comes, we will not know where he's from. There aren't he is. They didn't know where he was from. They thought they knew. There is he from Galilee, is he from Judea, while the real mystery is, real secret is he's from heaven. He's from above. And that comes out in the rest of the chapter, in fact in the next chapter as well. But the other group was ironically correct in their misunderstanding as well, because he really was from Bethlehem. He really was from the house of David, although they don't seem to know that fact and are acknowledging it. So this is another way in which John often records for us these ironical features throughout Jesus' ministry that I think, besides being ironic, I think they promote our deep reflection upon these things. They're below the surface of what's happening in the life of Jesus. And they cause us to stop, to reflect, and to think about the wondrous plan of God. Who could have designed something like this? It's just marvelous how this works out and how Jesus accomplishes His purposes. Well, let's go on and talk about another aspect of the Feast of Tabernacles. This story, I think, comes to a climax in verses 37 through 39. I'm not going to read through the whole story, but we come to this verse 37 on the last day, that great day of the Feast. Jesus stood up and cried out saying, if anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me as the scripture has said out of his heart, will flow rivers of living water. But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, who knows believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. Very profound things there, a number of profound things about the Spirit being given which we're not going to cover today, we might cover that at another point in the future. With that being related to Christ going to the cross, ascending to heaven, and then giving the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. But we have Jesus pronouncement here also. We've seen this symbolism of the Spirit and water before, haven't we? Chapter 4 and in chapter 3 with Nicodemus and then with the Samaritan woman. I want to just deal briefly with a matter of translation. Dr. Moenny at the seminary makes this point in his class. I think he's right. You have in the margins of some of your Bibles an alternative translation of verse 39. I read it saying, if anyone thirsted and come to me in drink, he who believes in me as a scripture says out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. It could be punctuated differently. It could be punctuated like this. If anyone thirsts, let him come to me. And he who believes in me, as the scripture has said out of his heart, that is the Messiah's heart, will flow rivers of living water. In other words, it could be punctuated just a little bit differently with the commas and periods, so that what is being said there and firm is that it is from the Messiah's heart, from the Messiah's body that rivers of living water flow out rather than from the believers' heart or body. Now I don't think that's necessarily one is heretical and one isn't, of course not. We have chapter 4 where Jesus says if I give you living water, this water will well up within you, well up within the believer and always be there, so you don't have to come to this well and get water all the time. But also in fitting with that chapter, he says that I am the source, he says that he is the giver of that living water. So I do think it makes more sense to affirm here that it's Jesus out of whose heart will flow, the rivers of living water here, and that makes sense as being affirmed here. John. That helps me a great deal. And dealing with something that had renowned and below us who we shall remain nameless, standing in a series on this, some years ago, I've heard it, that unless the believer's life was characterized by overflowing of abundance of this, but then you had reason to doubt whether you were a believer or not, so that helps you a great deal there. Yeah, that's right. I mean, we are all partakers of the living water, but I don't know if this fits any other imagery and scripture of that, you know, that water flowing out from us and becoming a stream of life to others. But I mean, that fits more of what the Messiah's role is. Jesus has set it up himself already in this gospel. And I think it makes sense also of what Jesus is saying. Now we go back having said that, let's go back to the story itself and just catch up a little bit of the background. This is, of course, the Feast of Tabernacles. You remember that Feast of Tabernacles was in a sense a harvest feast happened in late September, early October, after the wine harvest. And it was primarily to remember and celebrate God's deliverance of the people out of the bondage of Egypt. And it was the distinctive part of their celebration of Tabernacles. Well, the thing that they lived in booths or Tabernacles, right, they had to construct these little shacks, little huts out of leaves and sticks and things, they lived to remind them of the hardships of Israel in the wilderness as God was leading them through the promised land. Now, over the years, other customs had developed. We know by this time that the high priests during the seven days of the Feast would take some water from one of the conduits or one of the rivers, I'm not sure where, around Jerusalem. And there'd be a procession, he'd come up to the temple and he'd march up on the altar and he'd pour out this water. And on the seventh day, he would march around, so we're told, march around the altar seven times and then march up and then pour out the water. So this was a very much a part of that Feast ritual. So it makes a little bit more graphic, I guess, when we read that Jesus on that last great day stands up and proclaims that he is the source of living water. Why were they doing this? Why were they, why were they, why the water symbolism on the Feast of Tabernacles? Well, other people have commented on this. I think it's probably the case that, you know, you have other great water miracles during the time of the wilderness wanderings. What was the great water miracle? Of course, you have more than one. We mentioned one last week with walking through the Dead Sea. There was another one, water from the rock, exactly. Moses and the water from the rock, out of Exodus 17. We know that this occasion was celebrated on and on as remembered in Israel from places like Psalm 78, Psalm 78, 15 and 16. He says he cleft rocks in the wilderness and gave them drink abundantly as from the deep he made streams come out of the rock and caused waters to flow down like rivers. You might remember Psalm 46 for there is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the most high. Well, there, though the symbolism is shifted, let's say, from the desert to God's holy habitation, Jerusalem. You might wonder how that happened and I have a theory. Many of you know about the temple in Jerusalem. It's situation was on top of what? On top of a mountain. And at the top of that mountain, there is a big, huge, hard rock. In fact, the Mosul mosque that sits there right now is called what? The dome of the rock. And the rock is the big rock that's on the top of the crest of Mount Zion there. And we are pretty sure now, just a few months ago, article in biblical archaeology reviewer, they can tell where the original holy of holies sat on that big rock. So there is this rock on which the temple stood. And that might be the source of this symbolism. We start to get into prophets. Zechariah 14.8 says on that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem. Half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea, which will continue in summer as in winter. That's Ezekiel 14.8, excuse me, Zechariah 14.8. Coming to Ezekiel, Ezekiel has in the last chapters of his prophecy a great vision of a future temple, the glorified temple. And in chapter 47 of that prophecy, we read, then he brought me back to the door of the temple, an angel bringing Ezekiel. The door of the temple and behold, water was issuing from below the threshold of the temple. So it's not just water coming from Jerusalem, we find the source, it's from the temple, water coming from the temple, flowing toward the east, and the water was flowing down from below the south end of the threshold of the temple, south of the altar. And the narrative goes on to describe, if you read the whole thing, how the angel takes Ezekiel a thousand qubits away from the temple and the stream is now angled deep. And then he takes him another thousand qubits away and then the stream is knee deep. And then he takes him another thousand qubits away and it's waist deep. And he says, you couldn't cross it, you had to swim and you still couldn't cross it. It was so deep, this water flowing from the temple. And it flowed out to the east and it says, the angel tells him, when it gets to the sea, that would be the Dead Sea, you know, the sea that's full of salt and nothing grows there, nothing to live there. So it freshens that Dead Sea. Everything it touches, it says, comes alive. And this is the fresh water, life giving water that flows from the temple of God in on Mount Zion. And then in Revelation, which I believe was seen by John, the same John. In John's vision of the New Heavens of New Earth in chapter 22, this is the New Heavens of New Earth where there's no need of temple anymore because God and the Lamb are its source or its temple. Then he showed me the river of the water of life, brightest crystal flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the stream of the city. So when Jesus gets up on that last great day of the feast and the day when the high priest came in procession to the altar to pour out the water, symbolize God's provision of life for his people. And when Jesus stands up and says, come to me, all who thirst. And I will give you water. It was a claim to be the fulfillment of everything that was being celebrated and remembered on the day of the feast of tabernacles. Now in John 1934, John becomes witness to an extraordinary fact that surrounds the crucifixion. From the dead body of the Savior, he sees flowing out both blood and water. Now I imagine that whatever else this might mean and you know interpreters argue about that, I think it surely must have been a token for him, a token, a reminder that out of his heart would flow rivers of living water. And that water starts as a trickle but it becomes ankle deep and then knee deep and then waist deep and becomes a river that no one can cross because that's the river of life, the river of the Holy Spirit bringing life and flowing from the throne of God. And it's the throne of the crucified. Jesus is the fount of living water and from his presence, his presence which is the true temple of God flows the river which makes glad the city of God. Jesus is the fulfillment of the great symbolism of the feast of tabernacles as he is the fulfillment and the replacement of the temple itself. Well, any questions on that part before we go on to the next section.
Good, chapter 8, let's see if I could just avoid the questions on this part, like I just did there. We start at the end of chapter 7 and the first verses of chapter 8 was a bit of a controversy as most of you know. Anyone here who read, who actually read Tasker's commentary or any other commentary this week? I'm never going to ask that question again. Well, many of you know about a bit of a problem at this point in the text. Who would like to refresh our memories? Well, it's just that this is the portion about the woman taken in adultery and brought to Jesus and the fairest of you want him to condemn her. It's a great story. Well, the thing is it's not found in our earliest manuscripts, earliest manuscripts of the New Testament that we have of John that we have, it's not there. It does occur in a lot of manuscripts, but they're all late manuscripts. So some of your Bible translations will have an asterisk or a little line and IV I think has a line separates it and says that these are not found in the earliest manuscripts, so forth. Tasker's position, I find this fairly common position among evangelicals is evangelical scholars is that it probably was not original to John's gospel. People point out that it has a little bit different style than John, but that it probably is an authentic event in the life of Jesus. It has sort of that ring of truth of authenticity that sounds like something that Jesus would do and say. And so there can still be some benefit in us studying it yet a lot of evangelical scholars will hesitate before affirming that this is part of the original gospel of John. Now, I don't think there's a lot of stake one way or the other that is there's no doctrine that we're resting upon this passage of scripture. Nor does it cause a problem and a doctrinal problem if we were to accept it. Where I hear it quoted most often seems like one of two things. A person is making the point judge not less to judge because Jesus refused to let them throw stones. And it's also used for those who would be against capital punishment because of course she was due for capital punishment and Jesus sent them packing. Neither of which point I think should be allowed necessarily that is you've got other scriptures that speak I think to the contrary that is that if you're going to study the question of capital punishment you know I think you have to look at Genesis 9 at Romans 13 and some other passages as well. Certainly we can say that in this instance Jesus did not approve of their capital punishment of her their designs. It is at any rate a great story a great edifying story about Jesus and one that again seems to it sounds like something that really would have happened. It's like the time when the Jews question Jesus try to get him try to trip him up with a question of paying taxes to Caesar. You remember with that you know should we pay taxes to Caesar should we if he answers one way we'll get him in trouble if he answers the other way we'll get him in trouble. Just like that here should we most of said the stone such a one if he says don't stoner then he's in trouble because he's violating law. But if he says stoner why what will the Romans do they've taken away our right for capital punishment it's only through the Roman courts that we can accomplish this sort of thing. So they've got him on the horns of a dilemma and once again Jesus answer foils his critics I mean it's a brilliant answer. He acknowledges her guilt but he really focuses upon their guilt let he of you who is without sin cast the first stone go ahead and stoner. But just let the first let you cast the first stone who is without sin. So it is a brilliant answer and it confutes his critics and it forces them to look at themselves. Rather than just at her well time is fleeting I better go on. Y'all yeah I knew there had to be someone didn't I well I think my my view is as much like taskers on that that I think it it was not part of the original gospel John. I think it is probably a story that that is based on an authentic event in Jesus life but I just don't have the confidence that it is part of John's original writing and on the same par on the par with the word of God and the rest of the work. How is that? I don't see any stones. No I mean there are I don't want to open this can it worms too far but there are really only three places in the New Testament where in terms of textual criticism in terms of the manuscript tradition all the thousands of manuscripts that we have that there's a likelihood that there's an addition a later addition. Made to the original manuscripts and this is one where it's likely that this was not in the original the other one of the others is in the in the at the end of marks gospel many of you already know that there's a you know marks gospel ends very abruptly after the resurrection very abruptly and there were a couple of attempts we think early on to supplement that is sort of to to give it a nice ending by someone. And again what's at stake I don't think anything doctrinally is at stake in any of the additions if a person insisted upon accepting them but I think the textual evidence shows most likely that it was an actual short ending and abrupt ending for whatever reason we don't know. And that the late additions were late additions okay that's the other place and there's one more place a very short addition that is in first John 5 some of you know this text that is not in some of not even printed in some of your Bibles has to do it with the three witnesses John is saying that the spirit and the water and the blood witness. And in some of the text it says there are three that witness in heaven father the son spirit and three that witness on earth spirit and one blood that part that sounds very tunitarian was evidently not in the original and probably probably came in fairly innocently it was probably a gloss somebody wrote in the edge of their by margin their Bible just like I know some of you do. And then a later copious didn't know if it was supposed to go in the text or outside the text and copied it in the text but fortunately we're in such a good position because we have so many new testament manuscripts that textual critics are are able confidently to say that about those those three passages now that last one probably in the 4th of 5th century and that one was pretty clearly it was probably first done in Latin the Latin vulga in Latin manuscripts and then confused copious thought well it should be in the Greek as well so they went back and put in the Greek. But that's if some of you want to talk about that subject more I would be pleased after class or at some other time but I think I want to go on to chapter 8. If anyone were writing this down this would be number 16 in our outline the origins of Jesus and of his opponents the origins of Jesus and of his opponents once again this question of Jesus origins it comes to comes to the 4. When I was younger and much less wise before I met my wife that is I might inform my parents my mother if I was starting to see a young woman and one of the first questions my mother would always ask would be what does her father do. And I remember thinking of the time what a foolish question you know mom I'm not dating her father I'm dating her. But now with age I realize how wise that question was. Because you can tell a lot about a person right from their parents if you know something about their parents something what what they do even where they're from you know something about that person. And we find that the question of Jesus origins we've already talked about those origins in terms of geography let's say. But also in terms of his origins in terms of his paternal origins who is his father that's going to become a crucial issue. And especially in this chapter it's going to become a stumbling block to those who hear him in fact in chapter 8 the controversy Jesus has with his opponents becomes intensely serious. I think this is some of the most emotionally charged discussion in the whole New Testament not until we get like to the trial of Jesus do we I think match this level. This is not a calm after dinner discussion and I think if we read it and remain calm ourselves we probably haven't read it correctly. It ends with people trying to murder Jesus you can see that it is an emotional scene in chapter 8 verse 12 Jesus proclaims that he is the light of the world. Right then the Pharisees try to catch him in an inconsistency remember saw now you're witnessing about yourself you said you wouldn't witness by yourself. And Jesus says I can witness about myself why because I know where I come from and where I'm going and you do not. And he says also the father bears witness to me this is about chapter verses 14 through 18. There's the witness that his father has given him now the real heat begins verse 19 they say where is your father where is your father. Jesus charges that they know neither him nor the father his father if they had known him they would have known his father. We're told that they try to arrest Jesus at that point but that his hour had not yet come and they were not able to his hour had not yet come. Remember we've pointed we've pointed this out a couple times previous that Jesus hour has not yet come this is when we made the water wine his mother wanted to do something spectacular but his hour hadn't come. He said he told his brothers they wanted him to go up to the feast with a big show and display do it openly and he says my hour has not yet come. Here the reason given for why they couldn't arrest him was that his hour had not yet come and once again I'm you know asking to keep your eyes peeled for that point in the gospel when it says the hour has come. Well Jesus continues in verse 21 I am going away and you will seek me and you will die in your sin where I go you cannot come and they're confused is he going to go kill himself. How is it that he's going somewhere where we cannot come but Jesus is from above and is going back to his heavenly home he says they will realize who he is when he has been lifted up when the son of man has been lifted up. Now again this is one of those comments that I imagine at the time was pretty ambiguous to them what does it mean that the son of man will be lifted up. We know because we know the rest of the story. Discussion continues in verse 31 where it becomes Jesus turns the tables it's not his origin but theirs that is in view. They claim to be the Abraham's descendants their children of Abraham and therefore they're not in bondage to anyone Jesus had said if you abide in my word your disciples indeed and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free they took offense at that because they were Abraham's children had not been in bondage to anyone Jesus challenges them. I know that you are Abraham's descendants for 37 but you seek to kill me because my word has no place in you I speak what I have seen from my father and you do what you have seen with with your father the answer and say to him Abraham is our father if you were Abraham's children you would do the works of Abraham but now you seek to kill me a man who has told you the truth I'm at verse 40 which I heard from God Abraham did not do this you do the deeds of your father. Then they said to him we were not born a fornication no I think I think it should be read a little bit differently we were not born a fornication right good well put you can't produce your father is what they're saying to him who is your father but we know from other pieces of literature that Jesus virgin birth was not accepted as such. So I think this is a slander upon Jesus paternal origins we were not born a fornication we have one father God Jesus said to them if God were your father so he's saying he's not you would love me for I proceeded and came proceeded for if it came from God nor have I come of myself but he sent me skipping down to verse 34 you are of your father the devil I can't imagine is it being said in a calm fashion and the desires of your father you want to do he was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him when he speaks a lie he speaks from his own resources for he is a liar and the father of it but because I tell you the truth you do not believe me which of you can fix me of sin and if I tell the truth why do you not believe me he who is of God hears God's words therefore you do not hear because you are not of God now it is an astonishing thing to be told by the son of God that you are not of God but they continue listen to the response are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon now another charge about Jesus he must be the son of some Samaritan and he must be demon possessed it's not us Jesus that are of the devil but you you've got a demon Jesus says I have not a demon but I honor my father and you dishonor me again what a damning indictment told by Jesus that you dishonor him but there is one who does seek Jesus honor his glory and that is the father who may have not known now we know that you have a demon they cry because Jesus has said I've got to read that here verse 56 your father Abraham rejoiced they have been claiming that their Abraham's children right he says they're not Abraham's children because if they were they would do what Abraham did your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day he saw it and was glad then the Jews said to him you are not yet 50 years old and have you seen Abraham then Jesus said to them most assuredly I say to you before Abraham was I am they understood the implications of this because they took up stones to throw at him but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple going through the midst of them and so passed by well this encounter then ends with a most dramatic and a most colossal claim on the part of Jesus it's printed correctly in your text you know before Abraham was I am to the Jews that would have immediately brought their their their minds back to that other encounter between God and Moses at Sinai where God calls himself in fact the I am tell them I am has sent you I am that I am that being the correlate of the very name of God used throughout the Old Testament of Yahweh Yahweh has to do with that same word in a different form for for I am I am has sent you and then it ends with those trying to stone him when Jesus has revealed himself in ever more clear fashion now in chapter 9 Jesus as the light of the world Jesus as the light of the world does somebody want to tell the story retail the story of this healing and we want to summarize the facts story here okay Mark see the key mark is whenever the press professor asked you look down never look up
and then later on the man who was lying that's right good good thanks that's right I think you know for most of us it's a fairly familiar story if not in the details we know we know the story about Jesus healing this man born blind and one point he says you know nobody's ever heard you from the beginning of the world of one born blind who was healed and you remember at the very beginning the disciples are asking about this man did he sinner did these parents that he was born blind and Jesus rejects that whole argument and says no it's for the glory of God the glory of God might be revealed he heals a man and this again is on the Sabbath and he says I must work the work of God while it is still day remember last time he got in trouble for healing on the Sabbath he talked about the work of God God is working still and I am working my father's working still and I am working he's working on the Sabbath doing good healing and as Mark says the man goes away loses Jesus he's found by the Pharisees they question him you know who did this to you he doesn't know and who is this man he says you know who is I don't know but all I know is I was blind and now I see they call his parents because they don't believe him parents will only give him a bit of support now what is this all here to teach us again I think this is a clear indication clear reminder that Jesus miracles are not simply do to his compassion on people in their needs they are that there's not knowing that for a moment he didn't have to do any of these things but he did have compassion number of times we're told how much compassion he had but they also did something else didn't they they also taught something very important about Jesus himself they made a point about who Jesus is what point does this miracle make about Jesus what are we to come away from this Helen right exactly it is the spiritual blindness and spiritual sight that is at issue and Jesus says I am the light of this world apart from me you walk in darkness so this physical sight and lack of it becomes the the outward symbol visible symbol of what is really important the spiritual sight and lack of it and you remember this scathing condemnation of the Pharisees at the end of the story right he says to them I read this verse 39 for judgment I have come into this world that those who do not see may see and and not just that but that those who see may be blind maybe made blind then some of the Pharisees who are with him heard these words and said to him are we blind also Jesus said to them if you are blind you would have no sin but now you say we see therefore your sin remains they were in effect saying are you calling us blind he says if you really were really blind you might have an excuse but you say you see so your blindness remains if you get the impression from the text particularly the translation from 8 and 9 at this miracle was very close proximity to the altercation between Jesus and the Pharisees in chapter 8 yeah I have that impression anyway that's the impression I have could this be the same day well it certainly appears that way the beginning of chapter 9 as Jesus passed by we end of chapter 8 and so he passed by as he passed by unless he's talking about an occasion a few days later but I would say that's the natural reading yeah so then to the miracle where Jesus revealed in chapter 8 that he is the source are you saying of living water or what exactly you know that he is Abraham before Abraham was I am yeah that's a good point it's a good first Sabbath healing they took that as his point too that he was putting himself on a par with God the father my father is working still and I am working and they brought that same claim from that encounter so I think that's legitimate they would have you can see this as another indication of his unity Jim we can say something right right good Isaiah 61 which Jesus quotes elsewhere about releasing the prisoner and the blind seeing and so forth he brings sight to the blind right well again then this this miracle showing not just that Jesus has compassion on people but that he is the light of the world and apart from him we walk in darkness and he came as judgment so that the blind might see in those who say they see might become blind or might be confirmed in their blindness that of course is the part of it we maybe don't like to talk about very much the judgment aspect of this dividing those to elicit sight from some but to harden in blindness others who will reject him there is one other point I want to make from this section and that is the irony another case I think of startling irony what happens with the man who was healed of course he is accosted by the Pharisees and they run him down they denigrate and revile him they cast him out of the synagogue where is that the parents are afraid to confront them because they know that they might get put out of the synagogue verse 22 put out of the synagogue thank you thank you you are completely born in sins and would you are you teaching us and they cast him out you know they cast him out of the synagogue they were the rulers and they were in effect saying you may not worship anymore and then look at verse 38 after Jesus meets him again and says you have both seen him that is the son of man or son of God you believe in him he is he who is talking with you verse 38 then he said Lord I believe and he worshiped him you find that ironic I do he was just told that he couldn't worship he couldn't worship God who's worshiping God in this text is the Pharisees or is the man who was healed it's the man who was healed he is the one who's worshiping in spirit and in truth he's the one who's coming to the true temple of God where God's spirit tabernacled with men he's the one whose eyes have been opened and is able now to praise God any other questions or comments on chapter 7 through 9 I know we've run run pretty quickly I can't believe it this crowd has been so full of good discussion yes okay that's in chapter 5 verses 7 and 8 yeah 7 and 8 if you're if you have like the New King James it will say yeah for there are three that bear witness in heaven the father the word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one and there are three that bear witness on earth at that point those words are what most scholars think were a later edition probably written originally in the margin and then eventually copy in the text so that apart from that you would have it reading and it is a spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth and something like there are three that bear witness the spirit the water in the blood and these three agree as one you have a note in New King James to the side of verse 7 explaining that any other questions before we go yes oh yes in the back yeah that's right she can yeah yeah there there are possibly a you know a number of of things Abraham was was met by the three visitors the three heavenly visitors the angels and you might remember there is that kind of vacillation between them being the angel of the Lord and being the Lord sometimes in the kind conversation it said the Lord is doing this and many people think that is you know a pre incarnate appearance of Christ there is the the instance with the laughing or the rejoicing could be a reference to the laughing that took place with regard to Isaac's birth the rejoicing in Isaac remember Sarah laughed and Isaac means he laughs there is the the incident of the sacrifice of Isaac and God providing on that day for his sacrifice his true sacrifice and author Hebrews makes the point that he received him back as as if by resurrection although it was not true resurrection there is some some indication that Abraham must have understood deliverer to come so I think there are a number of occasions on which we can see that Abraham's faith must have reached beyond its own day to believe in a delivery coming deliverer one who who would be sacrificed the true Lamb of God and I don't know if I can go any more specific than that and the heavenly visitors but Jesus is affirming that Abraham knew of him Abraham had in some beginning sort of way faith in Christ faith in a coming deliverer God's messenger okay let's pray our Lord Jesus we do give you praise again for coming into this world and being the light of this world we confess that we know from our experience that we would walk in utter darkness apart from you we thank you for the light that you have shown in our hearts showing us the glory of God in the face of Christ we thank you for taking away our blindness we thank you that you have provided us with an ever living source of pure fresh life giving waters even your Holy Spirit help us to live each day in that renewed existence and grant that our worship might be pleasing to you in Jesus name I'm asking