What really is a valid baptism? The answer to that and other questions on this edition of Key Life. I am Mike Kellogg and you are now listening to Key Life, where you can find honest answers to honest questions about God's Word.
Now, here is Steve.
Thanks Mike, and thanks Pete Owensen, my pastor for coming in. Good to be here. Pete is my pastor. He is also on the board of Key Life, and I am especially nice to him for two reasons. He sets my salary, and he also knows where the dirt is, and you never offend anybody that has that kind of power. Pete, I do appreciate your coming in. Hey, listen, we do love getting your questions, but you got to write them down. Don't use the 1-800 key life number. You can make orders there, get a lot of neat, free stuff, as long as supplies last. And you can make a contribution. You've got to write the question down. Key Life, post office box 5,000, make them Florida, 32794. In Canada, Key Life, Canada, post office box, 32150. Cambridge Ontario, in 3H5N3. And then you can email us at Steve at keylife.org with your regular mailing address if you would like a response. You always get a response from me, or a staff person, or on the broadcast, or in the magazine, and we love to get your questions. Pete, why don't you leave us in prayer, and then we'll answer some of these. Father, today we stop for a minute, and remember that you are in charge, and you are our father, and that you are our savior. And anything good that's in our life came from you. We thank you for Lord, our people who love us, and the people who care for us. We thank you for the gifts that we have, we thank you for all that we have. We are blessed people, and we are so rich. Lord, we thank you for the trials, even, that come into our life, that challenges that you use to shape us and mold us and develop us. Lord, help us to listen to you and what you're doing in our life, but it's good to be your sons and daughters, and we thank you for the salvation that we have in Christ. Lord, we look forward to worship, we look forward to meeting with your people, and as a body this weekend, exalting you, and lifting up your praise and honor and glory. Lord, take us away from just looking at ourselves, and help us to look at you and your grander and your beauty. And be with our leaders that they could stand strong, and free as they teach your word. May they not care what we think, but may they give us the truth and give us it in a gracious way. Lord, we thank you for Steve in this ministry that you have given him how unique it is and how it's touched our lives, so we pray that you would bless it continually and cause more and more people to come to know about Christ through key life. We commit our few minutes here on the air, working through these questions, and we give you praise, and that's what you'd work in this time. Jesus name we pray. Amen. Pete from Pennsylvania, what is considered a real valid baptism? Well, I think denominational affiliation would be the first thing. No, you know, there's nothing we can say on this that we're not going to offend some people. Did you read the book years ago that in a varsity published called The Waters That Divide? Great book. I read it. They're republished now. It made a profound impact on my life. This need not divide brothers and sisters, but it has down through the history of the church. Oh, there are people book of serial killers over there. So now you answer the question. Well, I think there are two things. People say, what about mode? I don't care. You can hose them off if you want. But water and the trying formula, I think those two things are legitimate universal without Christendom. There are paleo-baptists. What is that? Infant baptism. And there's a severe and we're among those. And severe Bible believers who love Jesus, who believe that that is the New Testament. Anitiatory sign. Justice circumcision was the older Testament initiatory sign. There are people that believe in only believers baptism. That you've got to know Jesus before you can be baptized. There are different modes. There's effusion. And that is pouring water on it. In fact, the earliest record that we have of baptism is pictures on the catacombe. And it doesn't show Jesus being dipped into the Jordan, but standing in the Jordan, with John the Baptist pouring from a gourd, water on Jesus. Isn't that powerful? That's the first artistic rendition of that. The Jordan River was very shallow right there where John did baptism. That may well have been how it was done. And by the way, the Jordan River is very dirty too. Don't bring the water home and give you go to Israel. Don't bring the water home and don't do it yourself. You get jungle water or something. You know, we both been given as pastors. We both been given water from the Jordan. What do you do when you get it? Really not be honest. I do what you told me to do. Throw it out and fill it back up with fresh water. I mean, you know. So there are babies all over. I mean, adults now think they were baptized with water from the Jordan. What's true? You know, you can hold that step up to the lighting. You could see things wiggling around. I thought there's a lot of babies here. But, you know, could you come back and say, pastor, you baptized my baby? He's got eczema. No, I am. But, as you say, I love what you say. This is really not an issue that ought to divide. But all three of the modes have biblical base. You know, effusion pouring, the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. On us, sprinkling, we've been sprinkled clean and the Old Testament. Presbyterians do that because of the imagery of the cleansing of the sprinkling, the preaching, the Old Testament. And then immersion. Which is a wonderful symbolism of rising up. Buryed with Christ and risen with it. So, they're all our symbols. And we make an effort not to be polimical. I have no idea what that means. So, I saw it in the dictionary on this broad. It means argumentative. And we want to be unifying effort in the body of Christ. Now, you want to know our views. Peter and I both believe in the baptism of infants and in sprinkling. But we don't think if you disagree that you're ugly in your mother, the dress is you're funny. That's right. We don't think that in sprinkling regenerates the infant. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. We do not believe in baptism or regeneration. Right, right. Okay, good. Tennessee, this is a good one for you. To whom should pastors be accountable within the church of the denomination? You know, in a Presbyterian mode, it's a good mode. We are not members of the local church. We are members of the Presbyterian, which is the local district of pastors and elders. And so we are really accountable on all three levels. We're accountable to the fellow elders in our local church and the Presbyterian. And then do our general assembly, too, which is our national level. You know what scares me sometimes? You know, we get a lot of letters when you have pastors who aren't accountable to anybody. Yeah. Now, I believe in a strong pastor. And that's one of the reasons I like you. You are. I mean, there's no doubt about where you stand. You do lead. And I believe in that. But you know, you get a guy that's into power and manipulation. And who does isn't accountable to anybody about money or about the church government. Well, you got a dangerous situation. You really got to lose cannon. In our, in our, and I love our session there, we have some heated discussions sometimes. We disagree with each other, but we do love each other. And I think it's my job to be strong. I'm there more than they are. But I really do believe in the plurality of elders, which means that there must be more than just one. Yeah. And I think that the senior pastor should be somebody who's leading the charge. A week senior pastor usually doesn't help the church. That's right. But he's got to consciously submit himself. And there's times when that process takes a while. Yeah, really. That's your right. I think there's danger. But I think that danger is universal. When you take this beyond, I believe in the headship and the priesthood of the father and the family. But I wouldn't give you a dime for a man who requires submission to himself who isn't submitting to somebody else. Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, I feel so strongly about that that I have real doubts when somebody is not under submission and consider they have this from God. And I don't care whether anybody's going to doubt about God's working in their life. I agree. Yeah, I love that. Is it penicidal Bible church out in California that when their interns first came to the church to do their internship, they handed them a toilet bowl scrubber and said, this is your job for the next month. And they literally, guys, headed for the ministry, would literally do that. And they would move them up in the different areas of experience. Was that Ray Steadman? I believe it was. Ray Steadman's church did that. I have a lot of respect for him. I mean, Jesus now. I'm missing. Really good man. Okay. Let's see. Well, boy, this is from North Carolina. Will Christians be persecuted in the end times? What is your position on the tribulation? Why don't you write a list of guys? Ask us a question like, did Jesus rise from the dead? Or is the Bible through or something that we can all agree on? Why do you do this? We're constantly in hot water. But we'll answer it. But not on this microphone. We're going to the next one. No. What do you think? Christians are going to be persecuted. I think Christians have always been persecuted. They will always be persecuted till Jesus comes back. My view is that we're going to go through the tribulation and that it will be cut short for the sake of the elect, Matthew 24. Do you think Christians are going to go through it? Yes, I do. But I also believe that there is going to be an increasing tribulatory experience that as we move toward that time, as you stir up those forces that are against God. And I think a part of the imagery and the reality of Armageddon is that there's this final battle when we're going to settle this thing. You know, you got the bully. I remember. I beat up a bully one time. Wow. I just thought of that. A couple of weeks ago. I'm proud of that too. You know what I think? Oh, this guy had been doing it. I was in grammar school and he'd been messing with me for two years. And I just said, I'm going to get killed but I'm not going to put up with this anymore. And I remember waking up on top of him. Whoa! That's when I became a Christian, man. I thought I was going to get killed. I was saying it was going to wheel my bicycle through. But I think his things stir up. That they'll be increasing tribulation. We need to be aware of that. But I, with you, believe that we will probably go through the tribulation. Corey Tenboom, believe that. Well, the final tribulation. There have been many tribulations. Yes. Sound through the edges, I think. But there will be a final great tribulation. It'll be really pretty scary. Yeah, it is. And I think that we're seeing in America how hard it is sometimes to stand up for biblical truth and some of the basic values. So true. Well, you know, I'm in one of those never-never lands. Not having gotten too much time to just sit around and chat. Not enough to answer a question. Well, we got to talk about the trilateral commission or something. Well, no, let's talk about the infra-lute super-luxarian. Are you an infra or a super? I'm a super. How about the Graf Bell housing documentary hypothesis? It is a huge impact in my life. It is a parishioner asking me about it. However, you know, I did learn it and learned it well. And don't ask. It's not important. Trust me on this. Listen, guys, check out our website. You'll find a lot of helpful daily stuff on our website. You can hear today's broad dance and the previous 30 archives. It's www.keylife.org. Hey, thanks for coming in. All right, let's see. Keylife is a list-new supported production of Keylife Network.