I saw on the right hand of him who was seated on the throne, a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals, and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals? And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or look into it, and I wept much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. Then one of the elders said to me, weep not, low the line of the tribe of Judah, the root of David has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals. That's great. Heavenly Lord, we are indeed odd and privileged that you would allow us to look in upon this dramatic and awesome scene in heaven. Again, O Lord, we confess that like Isaiah, we are men and women of unclean lips and made of people of unclean lips. And we would pray that as you did with Isaiah, you would take a call from that burning altar and touch our lips that you would purify us. We thank you for the blood of the Lamb which was shed to save sinners and we rejoice that that blood has been applied to us.
Heavenly Father, we pray that you would take our minds off of the cares that distract us, that we may better behold you and your glory. Be with us now as we study your word in Christ's name, we ask it. Amen.
We have come to the end of chapters two and three, the letters seven churches and ready to begin what I suggest is the second major vision of the book, second out of four. This is a vision of the heavenly throne room in chapters four and five. And I think I may have mentioned this last time, but I would encourage you to look at this as the foundational vision for what's going to happen in the book from here to the end of chapter 16 until we come to the third major vision. And I think we're going to see how everything that plays out between now and the end of chapter 16 plays out in a way very related to what happens here in chapters four and five. Really introduce us again. They're like a foundational vision for what comes next in many ways. We're going to have, of course, we're going to be introduced to a scroll and in chapter six we're going to have seals on that scroll broken and then we're going to have angels that are introduced to us at that time blowing trumpets and then later on pouring out bowls and so forth. Again, what is the scene of basically? What's that? It's a scene of the heavenly temple, the heavenly throne room of God. We're going to be introduced to the scene around the throne and the beings that are there and what's going on there. Chapter 4 verse 1, after this, and that means after after John had received the messages to the seven churches, after this I looked and low in heaven and open door. Would you like to be presented with an open door in heaven? Remember this is one of the things that was promised to the church at Philadelphia that Jesus would put before them an open door which no one can shut. And I think that has to do with what's going on here. Well, he sees an open door and the first voice which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, whose voice was that? Christ's voice. Yes, it is in Christ's voice in chapter 1. Said, come up hither and I will show you what must take place after this. At once I was in the spirit and low a throne stood in heaven with one seated on the throne. And he who sat there appeared like Jasper and Cornelian and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders plad in white garments with golden crowns upon their heads from the throne issues flashes of lightning and voices and peels of thunder. And before the throne burned seven torches of fire which are the seven spirits of God and before the throne there is, as it were, a sea of glass like Christ. Now, I'm not going to read through the rest of it right now, the rest of chapter 4. But as I hope you had a chance to read you see that the rest of chapter 6 introduces us to four living creatures. We've mentioned the twenty-four elders and there are four living creatures. And then we find what these creatures do, verse 8, all day and night they never cease singing. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come. And then we have the elders falling down and worshipping him who lives forever and ever crying out, crying out, worthy art thou or Lord and God. Our Lord and God received glory and honor and power without its create all things and by thy will they created, they existed and were created. So, it's a marvelous scene of worship in the heavenly temple, the heavenly throne room. I remember last time Eric Alexander was here, remember that he preached out of Revelation 4. I remember one of the points he made which I thought was very good. He talked about the situation of the churches, many of them, in persecution directly at the time. And what a comfort it must have been for John to say to them, tell them what he saw. That there is a throne in heaven. There is a throne in heaven and there is one seated upon it who has made all things and who rules over all things. What a comfort it must have been to them. Now, there are many things in this scene that are mysterious, awesome, and I'm sure beyond our grasp, certainly beyond my grasp. But there are many things that are familiar to us to some extent from earlier, similar experiences of God's prophets. Does any of this ring a bell with anybody? Have you seen anything like this before in scripture? Isaiah 6. Yeah, Rob, what's going on in Isaiah 6? Can you tell us? Right, right. And this was evidently Isaiah's initial vision, his call as prophet. And there are the seraphim crying holy, holy, holy Lord God of hosts, heaven and earth are full of your glory. What we've seen most Sunday mornings as the Sanctus, a part of the Sanctus that we see comes from Isaiah 6. In Revelation, before living creatures, seeing something very similar. Reginald Heber based his hymn, more on the revelation passage. And you know that one as holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty. And I think it's a second verse that says, All thy saints shall praise thy name in earth and sky and sea. Holy, holy, holy, and we have all the saints adore thee. When we were casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea, the cherubim and seraphim falling down before thee, who worked in art, and evermore shall be based directly off of this vision in chapter 4. Isaiah 6 then is certainly one of the backgrounds for this vision, something that has taken place in the Old Testament that is a precedent for what's happening with John. Do any other incidents come to mind from the Old Testament? That's certainly one of the most memorable. That's right. That's right. Ezekiel chapter 1 and Ezekiel chapter 10. Ezekiel sees, again, visions that are very similar in some ways, most striking there is the description of the four living creatures. And it's a little bit different there because here we're said that one is like a man, one like an ox, one like a lion, one like an eagle. Each living creature has four faces or four aspects of a face, and each one has each of these four creatures. The image is a little bit different for whatever reason. There, the throne that they're surrounding has wheels. Now I think that has most to do with the fact that what's going on in Ezekiel's day? Well, the temple in Jerusalem is about to be destroyed. In fact, had already been destroyed. And that is what is important in Ezekiel's day. So if the temple in Jerusalem is destroyed, what happens to the ark and the throne in the presence of God? Well, it moves, doesn't it? And so the wheels there are very appropriate in Ezekiel's vision. We don't read of any wheels here. In Ezekiel's time, I think the vision was so related to the earthly temple. Here we are not even, the earthly temple doesn't seem to be in the picture. This is the heavenly temple, the heavenly throne room, and no wheels are mentioned. Other aspects of the vision can go back. It's a very fascinating study. If you want to do this sometime, go compare this with Ezekiel 1, Ezekiel 10. Isaiah 6 was mentioned and go all the way back to Mount Sinai. Because some of these elements also heart back to that occasion, when in Ezekiel, excuse me, Exodus 24, verses 9 and 10, there is mention when the elders go up the mountain with Moses and Aaron, and it says they saw the Lord God of Israel, whatever that means. Because elsewhere we're told that no one has seen God. But they saw the glory in some sense. And it says there was like a firmament of glass. I forget just how it's mentioned. But you find that occurring in Exodus, Ezekiel, and in Revelation, this sea of glass, or as it were a firmament like glass, sapphire color. Well, this shows us that John is given an experience like the prophets of old, in being brought before the presence of God. And there are certainly some distinctive elements of this vision, but many of them heart back to what has gone on before with some of the great prophets of old. Many questions around some of the more prominent elements here, particularly the 24 elders and the four living creatures. How do we explain them, how do we understand them? What's going on with these elders, for instance? Who are the elders? What have you heard? What do you know? Who are these 24? Why 24? And why are they called elders? And have we seen them anywhere before? This is very mysterious and interesting. No takers on that question? Good. I can say what I want. You'll find most commentators taking either one of two positions. They're either angels, that is, the elders, not the commentators. They're either angels or they're humans. Or they represent humans. The earliest interpretation we still have is that of Clement of Alexandria, writing about 190 or so AD, who says that they represent the state of human souls after death. And he says they're not an exact number, for this Presbyterate is continually being added to as more perfected Christians, following in the footsteps of the Apostles, enter its rank from this world. So they represent human souls that are saved in heaven. Not a literal number. No, it's symbolic. It's symbolic of the eldership of the people of God. Well, I think there's a lot to be said for that. As I said, other commentators prefer seeing them as angels. Greg Beal, who's just written a huge mammoth commentary on Revelation, says that he thinks they're probably angels who are identified with the 12 tribes and the 12 Apostles, thus representing the entire community of the redeemed of both testaments. In other words, I think Greg kind of tries to wet the two views. They're angels, but they represent human beings. And that might be very good. Actually, who they are, I think, is very difficult to say. But I do think that it's right to say they represent the church. They represent the church. 24, the number itself. What does that tell you? What does that suggest to you? How about half of 24? What is that? 12. Okay, and what does the number 12 conjure up in your minds? I'm hearing two answers. Jesus disciples and the 12 tribes, and I think that's right. Those are the obvious biblical 12s, aren't they? You have the 12 tribes of Israel. You have the 12 Apostles of Jesus, which I think he chose 12, I think for a reason, to represent the 12 tribes. You have 12 and 12, the people of God and the old and in the new. And I think that's important. There's no real biblical symbolism of 24 or 12s that goes along with angels, per se. But there is a biblical symbolism of 12s that goes along with the people of God. So I think the interpretations on the right track that sees these as somehow representing the church, the redeemed of humanity. What are the elders themselves or actual angels or whatever they are? Human souls, I think, is kind of hard to say. I don't think that they're the actual 12 Apostles and the 12 patriarchs, mainly because John would then be seeing himself, right? Which is, I don't know if that, I mean, that's even too bizarre for. Well, anyway, maybe it's not, I don't know. In the Old Testament, we do read from time to time about a divine council, a divine council. And in Jeremiah 23, you'll come across some interesting verses. This is a context where Jeremiah is faced with a bunch of false prophets in Israel at the time. And God tells Jeremiah that essentially none of these people have stood in the council of the Lord. None of them have stood, if they had, then maybe you would listen to them. Because that's sort of a qualification for a real prophet. He stood in the council of the Lord, and I think we're never told the makeup of that council. It's sort of assumed, I think, throughout the Old Testament that it's an angelic council. Well, here in Revelation, I think we're talking about that council. And it's identified as 24, and Clement of Alexander may be right, it's a symbolic number. 24, and I think that they do represent in some way the redeemed of humanity. So either that council has been simply more further defined, or perhaps reconstituted, I don't know. But here the council, I think, really has to have to do with the people of God, the redeemed of humanity. Notice also that the 24 are wearing crowns. They are wearing white clothing, white garments, and they are sitting on thrones. All three of those things were promised to the conquerors in chapters two and three, those who conquer. Jesus said he will give to sit on his throne as he sat on his father's throne. We've got those mentioned, the crowns in 210, the clothing in 3, 4, and 5, and the rulership, sing on thrones in 321. Does this mean that the church has been raptured by this time? Because we see the church in heaven. Well, I don't think so. Again, this is a symbolic number. It's certainly not all of the redeemed, but it represents the council. You might say the rulership, the eldership of the redeemed. It doesn't mean that all the church is now gone, or if I think we'll see that more as we go on. How about the four living creatures? We've already mentioned in terms of some of the Old Testament pictures, the Old Testament visions. There are respondents with the Seraphim in Isaiah 6, who cry holy, holy, holy. And we've seen a correspondence with what Ezekiel calls cherubim in Ezekiel 1 and 10. Certainly, you have to be the same beings, whoever or whatever they are. You will remember, of course, that in the Old Testament, Tabernacle. And all the instructions given for the Ark of the Covenant, a top of the Ark of the Covenant, was what? A depiction of... right. Well, the mercy seat was on top of it. And above that was depicted cherubim, right, with their wings touching and so forth. There were, of course, four corners of the Ark. The Ark is God's throne on earth, the representation of God's throne on earth. And there, in the very depiction of the throne of God, that sat in the Tabernacle and in the temple, was a depiction as well of these, I would say, the four living creatures. There on the top, the throne. And several times in the Old Testament, often in the Psalms, you will hear God referred to as, he who sits above the cherubim. Just like in the Old Testament, remember, the Old Testament temple was to represent the heavenly scene. The scene that John is now privileged to glance upon. Why four? And why these strange depictions? There are certainly four corners of the earth, right, in biblical imagery, both the four winds, the four corners of the earth. In terms of the faces, many have said things like this. Well, Philip Hughes says, they represent the whole order of animates creation, the wild beasts represented by the lion, the domesticated beasts by the calf, the ox, the birds represented by the eagle, and man, who is keen of all animate nature, to whom the dominion over the earth was entrusted. I don't know if we can do much better than that, really. The fish, I don't know, maybe they're represented by the wild animals, by the lion as well, I don't know. But they do seem to have a connection with the earth and animate creation on the earth. Again, you can think of certain images like the four winds, the four directions, the four corners of the earth, which have to do with the earth, the creation here below. And in some way, these probably represent the creation below, which upholds the throne of God, and God is seated above them. Remember also in Isaiah, God says at one point, heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool. So in some way, these four living creatures probably do represent the created order, the animate created order, that is under God and that serves God. There is a popular symbolism that goes back at least to Irenaeus. I think it goes back even earlier than him, sometime early in the second century, that identifies the four faces of these living creatures with the four gospels. Anybody familiar with that imagery? Right, you see it in maybe some literary sources that Dale's familiar with. And just in art, a Christian art through the ages. Usually it's John is the eagle, Matthew is the man, Luke is the ox, and Mark is the lion. Actually in Irenaeus's first version, Mark and John were turned around, and somewhere later on it got changed. But that's a very interesting sideline, I guess, because this has been a popular artistic motif throughout the centuries.
Well, my wife gave me once for my birthday a brass rubbings of a grave marker that's in Cambridge. There's a brass rubbing center you can go over there and rub brasses that were on graves and so forth. And this was a grave of a felony Matthew Paris, I think he was 1200s. And on his grave marker he had in brass depictions of the four gospels under these aspects. It's really cool, if you ever come over sometime, we'll have to show those to you. I'm not abiding everybody over today though, Mark. Alright, that's an interesting sideline. I don't know as it has a lot necessarily to do with what really is going on here, although a lot of early Christian writers did believe so. They believe that the four living creatures represented the four gospels. Well, it's interesting anyway. But now, what do they do? We've talked about the 24 elders and the four living creatures. What do they do? Well, day and night, they never cease to sing. This is the four living creatures. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord, God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. We talked about the liturgical and the hemological effects that we know still in our day. We go back to this passage of the Isaiah six passage a lot in our worship because this is a scene of worship after all. The four living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to God and then the 24 elders join in prostrate worship before the creator. They cast down their crowns, certainly symbolic of their kingly status, their rewards given to them. The cast down their crowns giving all honor not to themselves but to him who sits on the throne. Again, there's an acknowledgement in this in this song at verse 11. Worthy art thou to receive glory and honor and power without its create all things and by thy will they have listed and were created. Note again, the the emphasis on God as creator here. God as creator of the whole world and the the the four living creatures, all things are under his power by his will. They existed and were created. Now, something's going to happen as we turned chapter five, something that I think is represents something new in heaven. Is there a history of heaven? Is there anything change in heaven? Well, it seems like you could say yes, something has changed in heaven, something has changed because now John is going to see something that didn't ever appear there before. What's that? The scroll and who's the scroll given to a lamb writes in the right hand of the one sitting on the throne and eventually it's given to the lamb. Now, of course, as a second person of the Trinity, Jesus, the word of God has been with the father from all eternity. But as the lamb slain, that that is a new identity for him. That is that that depends on what has happened in history, what he has accomplished in history. Let's let's go and look at that chapter five verse one and I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne of scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals. And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. And I wept much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. Then one of the others said to me, wept not, low the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David has conquered. So he can open the scroll and it's seven seals. And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a lamb standing as though it had been slain with seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out to all here. And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb, each holding a harp. And with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints, and they sang a new song, saying worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals. For thou was slain, and by thy blood did ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and has made them a kingdom and priests to our God and they shall reign on earth. Then I looked and heard around the throne and living creatures and the elders, the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice worthy is the lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing. And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea and all they were saying to him who sits upon the throne and to the lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen, and the elders fell down and worshipped. Amen, what an awesome scene. John sees the one seated on the throne and just how he sees him, I don't know, but he sees that there is a scroll in his hand. This is a scroll, my translation I'm using translates it, scroll, some scholars have thought that it might be a codex. You know the difference between codex is what we're used to, opens out like this. It's a book. Scrolls, of course, were wound up. At this time the scroll was the norm. It was the standard way of writing, preserving writing, handing on writing. Very interesting history of the codex by the way, just sort of a side point here. It was really the Christians and their use of the codex that established the use of the codex. This has been proved. For whatever reason, Christians started adopting the codex at about this time, and all of our new testament manuscripts, with maybe the exception of one or two that were written on the back of the scrolls they were already used, all of them are from codices. You fold back and forth. It's a very interesting study, but that's why some scholars think this might be a codex. After all, it's written on the front and the back like a page would be front and the back. A scroll normally would have been just written on the inside. Although there are some instances of a scrolls written on the inside and the outside that says here. What's going on with that? I think probably the idea is simply that this scroll is full. It's really full. It's written on the inside and on the outside. It is full. It's ready to be, it's ready to be opened and read. Now, the question, what does the scroll contain? What is this scroll, this mysterious scroll that is so central to the vision here in chapter 5? Again, here's a place where a lot of suggestions have been made. One of the early church fathers, Victorinus, thought it signified the Old Testament. Leon Morris thinks it is the book of human destiny. Leon Morris, a very fine evangelical commentator. Another scholar says that makes a strong case for it being the little scroll that in chapter 10 is handed to John by an angel and John there is told to eat it. Eat this scroll, eat this book and he eats it and it tastes good in his mouth but sour in his stomach. He's told he has to prophesy about many things. So there's a case maybe to be made for an identification with that. Others say the book is a plan of judgment, God's plan of judgment or redemption and it is essentially what the rest of the prophecy of revelation contains. Okay, there are suggestions out there. I would suggest something a little bit different. I think it's significant that the book is, of course, the scroll is given to the Lamb. And he is acclaimed here as the only one that is worthy to break its seals and to open it. Now there is one other book or scroll mentioned in the book of Revelation that is particularly ascribed to the Lamb. Anybody think of what that is? Exactly the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb's book of life. I think that this is what it is. I think it's the Lamb's book of life. Both books belong to the Lamb. This book and the Lamb's book of life. The Lamb's book of life is mentioned in chapter 13, verse 8, chapter 21, verse 27. And other times it's mentioned without the Lamb's part of it, just the book of life. We talked about the book of life and one's name written in it. By the way, I'm talking to my wife and studying a little bit more this week. I think I want to change my answer that I gave last week on the book of life that question that was so brilliantly brought up, well placed and well timed. It's great because there was no tape on last week, so I nobody but you know what I said. The question you remember then was about the promise given to one of the churches that Jesus was not blocked and their name came out of the book of life. Does that imply that he does block somebody's name out of the book of life? You can relate that to other promises that have conditions like having your branch locked off the fig tree and so forth or the olive tree of Israel. But I think that it probably should be understood simply as a negative way of stating a positive promise. That is, it's just like saying, your names are written there and I will in no way wipe them out. Like Jesus says in John, you're in my father's hand and no one is able to snatch them from my father's hand. Him who comes to me, I will in no wise cast out. It's not that he's going to cast out some. It's just a negative way of stating that promise. That's like saying, if your name is in that book, it is there indeed and I am not going to erase it. So I think that's probably what's going on there. We can talk more about that sometime if you wanted to because there are some different old testament precedents for the book of life, some of which indicate that maybe you could be blotted out. But there I think it's talking about the book of the living that is essentially those who are alive and when you get blotted out, it means you die. But that's another story. Back to the book of life here, the book of life in Revelation, as we mentioned, a couple of times it's said to be the Lamb's book of life, others times it's just mentioned as the book of life. And those people whose names are written in the book of life, they have life. They're not destroyed by the second death. And if you go to the judgment scene in chapter 20, you'll see that those whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the fire, the lake of fire. Well, so I think again, this is probably the Lamb's book of life. Another thing that makes me wonder or makes me think that that is the interpretation is that there are connections with Roman custom of wheel making here. It was a part of the custom for a wheel. You write a wheel, last wheel and testament, to have that wheel sealed with seven seals. And each seal, it would seal that way because you had to have seven witnesses to your document. Seven people who'd seen you sign it and they would have their own seal stamp it. And then when it's open after the testator dies, you have those seven seals to break. Well, in a way, then this does correspond because the Lamb whose book it is has been slain. A death has occurred that brings this wheel into effect. And also, what does a wheel do? Will a will tells about the possessions of the one who died and what he once done with him, he or she. And I think that would fit with the book of life because the book of life contains his inheritance and his inheritance is his people. And this is what is to happen with his inheritance. Well, anyway, that's what I would argue for for the book, the scroll here, the scroll, the book of life that was sealed until Jesus came as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of his people. Opening of the seals then, which we're going to see in the next chapter, opening the seals, would represent then in this analogy, not what's written in the scroll here where you're given the whole interpretation of what's going on with the seven seals of broken, when one seals broken or white horse goes out and then a red horse and so forth and various things happen. Is this what's contained in the book? I don't think so. This happens when each seal is broken. These are things that happen before the book can be opened and before the book can be read. That's the way I would approach the seals. What about the lion, the lion who is also the lamb? No one in heaven, earth or under the earth, is found worthy to open the seal. But to interrupt John's weeping, one of the elders tells him, do not weep for the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David has conquered. So he can open it and it's seven seals. Some more marvelous Old Testament imagery here. The lion of the tribe of Judah, the lion of the tribe of Judah, ring any bells, the lion of the tribe of Judah. You still see in modern Israel, sometimes in the depiction of their nation, a lion, the lion of the tribe of Judah. This goes back to Genesis 49 in the blessings of Jacob. And where Jacob, as he's dying, pronounces the blessings upon his sons. And there's said to be a lion will come out of Judah, a lion's wealth and he just depicts the power of the lion and even the royalty of the lion of Judah. So he is the lion, he is the lion of the tribe of Judah. He is also the root of David. What image is that conjure up for you? The branch out of the root or stump of Jesse, right? Isaiah 11 is that famous Messianic passage where, of course, the lion of David is depicted as a great tree, tree often an Old Testament image for a king or a kingdom, but that tree has been locked off. The Davidic kingship has been broken. That is, they've been carried off at captivity. And the Davidic king is no longer on his throne. But the promise is that a shoot will grow up from that stump. That branch, that Messianic branch will grow. You have that, that Sam Lowe. There's a branch, air blumas. You've heard of that one. There are a couple of different translations about the rose growing from the shoot, the branch that Isaiah spoke of, so forth. Very beautiful imagery. But here, it's not only that he is the branch of David, but the root of David. What does that tell you? The source that he pre-existed David. Yes, he's David's son, but like he told these, you know, carping Pharisees at the time. You say that the Messiah is David's son. Okay, then why does David call him Lord? Why does David call him Lord? The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Jesus is not only the shoot, but he's the root of David. And he has conquer. He's the prototype for all those whom he calls to conquer in the letters to the churches. And when they're described later, the conquerors in chapter 12, verse 11, they're said to have conquered him, conquered the dragon. By what the blood of the lamb, the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony, because they love not their lives to death. Here he is the one who has conquered by death, by his blood. And imagine the shock that John must have felt after hearing. Remember, he's hearing a voice at this time. Weep not for the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David has conquered. And he can open the scroll. So he turns to look and what does he see? Instead of seeing a conquering lion, he sees an apparently conquered lamb. He sees a lamb standing as though slain. The conquering lion appears as the conquered lamb. Again, this gets to the heart of the Christian paradox, doesn't it? He is the conquering lion, but he conquered by becoming the conquered lamb. The lamb who was led to the slaughter, upon whom the Lord has laid the iniquity of us all. Doesn't that make you want to crown him with many crowns? The lamb upon his throne. Rich wounds yet visible above in beauty glorified, another part of rich part of our himnity. That one from Matthew, bridges, crown him with many crowns. This particular passage, chapters four and five, is the source of some very lasting himnity in the church. When Jesus, when slain lamb, takes the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fall down before him with harps and bowls of incense, what the harps and bowls of incense symbolize for you? Worship. Worship. They are the instruments of worship today. Harps and bowls of incense. In fact, the incense bowls, which go back to the temple worship of the old covenant, there were incense bowls burning, producing a sweet smelling savor. Now, those incense burners and incense represent what? The prayers of the saints. In chapter eight, we're going to see a little bit more of this imagery about the incense and the prayers of the saints and what function they might have. The incense going up like smoke is like the prayers of God's people ascending to him and they will have an effect. Again, he said to be worthy to take the scroll to open its seals. Why? Because he was slain and by his blood he did ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people in nation. He has made them a kingdom and priests to God and they shall reign on earth. This song reflects an Exodus theme. You have a lamb that is sacrifice and that sacrifice accomplishes redemption. It spares those who whom it redeems just like in the Exodus. And they are now a kingdom of priests just as Israel was a kingdom of priests when God redeemed them from land of Egypt. Verses 13 and 14, then we read that everyone in everyone worships, including all the angels all in heaven, on earth and under the earth and in the sea. The four living creatures say Amen and the elders fall down in worship and this brings the initial vision of the second major section to a close. But as I suggest the rest, what follows in its wake, its aftermath is very much connected to what's happened here in chapter four and five. Are there any particular questions or comments that you want to make? Yes. That's still to come. You mean in our day or in the text? What come next week? That's what we'll find out about. I'm sorry to be so. It sounds coy. It's really that I probably don't know. But it's I have to look at that. I don't one week at a time. Well, I think that I think you could say that the seals have been broken or in the process of being broken. We're seeing the effects of what happens when the seals are broken. But more on that, that's a very good question because that is a point of difference between, you know, various schools of interpretation of revelation. Just when do these get broken? Some would say it is right at the end. It's right at the end. It's during the seven year tribulation period. And others would say, well, they were broken in the first century and all their effects were also realized in the first century. I would say they were broken. Then when Jesus somewhere around the time, Jesus ascension and his presentation before the Father in heaven, but the effects of those seals being broken are still being felt throughout Christian history. That's my basic take on them. Don't have to come next week, but you should. Yes, Clay? You're going to or was Robert? Okay, okay. Yeah, the seals are very important for the next chapter or so. Chapter six and seven. I simply think of it as you can still see the wounds. I mean, I have the song comes to mind, you know, rich wounds yet visible above in beauty glorified. And somebody made no as well in Christian art. There's, you know, this is a kind of a motif as well, the lamb in heaven. Who was it? I think you're right. I think it's a John Bunnike painting of the lamb standing, you can see the wounds and the 24 elders around. I guess that's how I think of it. Anybody else? Any thoughts on that? It is a paradoxical image, I think. It's supposed to be striking. Yeah, Andy? And what did you come up with? Yeah, right. I think that's a true power. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. Andy's pointing out the two images of the lamb and the lion, which is more which holds more power for us personally. And of course, they're both powerful. But we think of the lamb and Jesus in his earthly ministry and have a sacrifice. And that that I'm sure is very powerful for us personally to reflect on. We know he will come back as the lion of the tribe of Judah. But, amen. We better cling to both of them. Yeah. Good. Any more comments? Alex, could we say that so far, John is witnessing something that is happening right there, something that can happen or something that is happening? Yeah. This section of four and five. Yeah, that's a good question. Again, it's someone, someone like your question over here about the seals being broken. When is this happening? You know, if you connect it where I think it probably should be happening? Well, chapter four, you think could happen at almost any time. He's seeing the worship of God in heaven and he's being worshiped as creator. Okay. That doesn't seem very time specific at all. Chapter five, though, we talked about the lamb appearing as slain and the book the scroll being handed to him. I mean, I think that that points to a particular time and history. It's after his death and resurrection and ascension. So, is it right about when he got to heaven? If so, right after his ascension? If so, John is in a way being transported back to a point because John is writing later than that, no matter when you date, revelation, it's after that point. Or is it happening more or less concurrent with John's vision? So, this is not really happening until 95 AD or 68, whenever you date the book. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I tend to identify it with what's happening essentially at the time of Christ's ascension. And there may also be, however, some indications that the destruction of Jerusalem has already occurred and that this is so it depicts maybe the whole period of time from the ascension to AD 70 and the destruction and what is now going to pertain to the rest of Christian history. So, that's a question we can talk about some more later when we talk about the seals themselves. Okay, it's a good point. All right, well, let's close in prayer. Holy Father, we thank you again for allowing us to glimpse at this most marvelous scene. Again, again, we confess we do not comprehend it all, but we would probably be scared to that if we could. And we pray that more and more, you would grant us a more living and more real experience of your presence in our own lives. And may you use this great book by your spirit to bring that about. Please forgive our sins through the blood of the Lamb and be with us the rest of this day as we seek to worship you in Christ's name. Amen.